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[Music]

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you're in the para cast the gold

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standard of paranormal radio and now

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here's gene Steinberg welcome back to

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the para cast with Gene and Chris and as

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you regular listeners know we have a

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place in our forums at forum doubt the

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para cast com that we call the question

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Bank what we do every week is we give

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you the opportunity when we have enough

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warning and sometimes we go to ask

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questions of our guests that's kind of

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impersonal I guess in a sense because

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you're hearing Chris read the questions

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mostly we're made and you don't hear the

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voices of the actual listener now here a

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couple of problems and you understand

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why it works this way we pre record this

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show and the reason is most guests don't

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want to be awakened at midnight or two

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o'clock in the morning or something on a

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Sunday morning to do a paranormal radio

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show we know there's a certain radio

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show that does that live we know that

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years ago long John Neville would have

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people come between midnight and 5:00

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a.m. and they would come on they would

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spend all night doing a radio show and

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get free sandwiches and everything for

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their efforts but we try to make it

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convenient for the guests and as a

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result we don't take live phone calls

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now we're looking at alternatives how

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can we have you listeners interact in

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some fashion with the guests and do it

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in a way that is more personal that we

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hear you asking your question so Chris

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an idea was specified or suggested in

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our forums what about yeah it was Jane

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and I tease you know we should come up

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with this a while ago what we're

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proposing is having folks send in their

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questions recorded as mp3s which we can

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then monitor view put in order and ask

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our guests by playing these questions

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live during the taping for our guests to

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respond to and I think that's a great

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idea I think it helps the show sound

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more immediate and also gives so you

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know our wonderful forum bunch out there

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the opportunity to more personally

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interact with our guests and we do have

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an incredible community on our forum

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some really bright up-to-speed folks and

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I think this will give them an

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opportunity to feel even more involved

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in para cast this is going to be a

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fascinating idea I mean there are

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different ways of doing it one is for

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those who post questions in the question

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Bank will also give us an mp3 copy of

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themselves reading the question that's

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one way

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maybe you set up some kind of audible

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chat system we have to figure out how

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this is going to be done we're not a

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higher percent sure of the best way we

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welcome your suggestions as I said it's

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not possible to take live phone calls or

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maybe that's a possibility that we've

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set it up so we receive phone calls

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during the course of the show but then

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it gets pretty complicated I think it'd

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be a lot better if we can just have the

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audio playing at our leisure when it's

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appropriate but also have the hard copy

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in the forums so this way when you do

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send a question we know that someone

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else hasn't asked the question it makes

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it easier for everyone so we have to see

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how that works we have to find a way to

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embed the mp3 files in the forum it's

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not really built to be in that way yeah

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I think we can do it you can upload an

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audio file can't you and post it right

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now it's not allowed as an attachment

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extension but I've added the feature for

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mp3 so we're going to experiment all

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this arcane back-end stuff that can get

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very confusing so there you go sounds

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good to me

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yeah on a show by the way we talk about

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unusual people who do unusual things or

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have unusual experiences and I don't

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know Chris if you've ever heard of a guy

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named dr. Steve Mann nope doesn't ring a

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bell gene he's a tenured professor who

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believes an augmented reality and for I

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guess the last 30 years or so he has

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worn various iterations of a headpiece

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you know it's like the original

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propeller head and he wears these

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goggles and something attached to his

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head 24/7 with which to sense the world

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around him bizarre I don't know if I

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believe in that sort of augmentation but

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I'm pretty kind of cool with some female

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augmentation that I've seen I just had

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to throw that out there I know I know

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but we won't get into that because this

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is a family radio show okay so I

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understand now the doctor man

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a tenured professor by the way his name

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Steve man he's a tenured professor at

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the Department of Electrical and

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Computer Engineering over at the

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University of Toronto he's gone to MIT

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and he's not gone to MIT in the sense

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that like a philan brag no went to MIT

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which of course he didn't this is

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somebody with legitimate degree

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legitimate credentials published

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professor and he wears the skier after

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you look at him without the gear he's a

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regular easygoing looking guy he has a

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wife and kids and here's a weird story

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now imagine somebody who wears this gear

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24/7 now imagine he's travelling in

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France and France I have all sorts of

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privacy things like they don't want you

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taking photographs of people and stuff

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like that

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okay all right so here's where we go he

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goes to a McDonald's with his kids and

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his wife in France and they say you

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can't wear that here the goggles now

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understand the goggles are attached to

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his skull he'd have to have them almost

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surgically removed okay so he gives a

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doctor's note he has his doctor's note

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he presents to the clerk or the cashier

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over at McDonald's

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this is McDonald's the saying you can't

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come in here little in France Yeah right

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so the cashier says that's fine but I

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have to ask my supervisor so the

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supervisor says no you can't do that and

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take supposedly takes his doctor's note

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and rips it up and an altercation ensues

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and man and his family they're thrown

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out of McDonald's

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I'm serious a bizarre story right

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surgically implanted to his head huh

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okay right had some kind of mesh or net

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that he puts on to his head

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well what what brought this on gene you

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know we talked about crazy people in the

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field I was thinking here

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here's a legitimate scientist

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credentialed scientist then we go back

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in the UFO field the 1960s and we had

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the mystic barber running around with

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his little wearable propellers or

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whatever channeling aliens I guess we

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have to think of the contrast where we

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have this wacky guy the

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SiC barber Andy Sinatra who's a was a

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very very very very distant cousin I

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guess to Frank Sinatra wearing this

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crazy headgear in fact there's a picture

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of him in front of the UN with the crazy

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headgear

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I guess summoning a et or something like

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that and then we have since the 1980s

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dr. Steve man look him up by the way in

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Wikipedia I'm being perfectly serious a

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family man tenured professor with a real

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MIT degree who runs around the world

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wearing this headpiece to sense

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augmented reality I guess his goal is

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for everybody eventually to be able to

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wear this helmet just don't line up with

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tinfoil people might talk I don't know

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what it's lined with I mean the guy is a

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serious scientist I mean just because

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somebody has a real PhD doesn't mean

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they're necessarily normal by the way in

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case you're looking at this if you go to

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the Wikipedia entry this thing happened

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on July 1st 2012 the alleged McDonald's

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assault at the champs-elysees McDonald's

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restaurant in Paris three employees

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allegedly assaulted man as a result of

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this year he wears well I'll tell you

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those French they sure aren't very

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friendly and you see now our listeners

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in France they're going to feel we've

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insulted them but we haven't denied I

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can't I can't say all French people are

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like that but boy if you go into a

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McDonald's and get assaulted because you

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have something drilled into your head

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that you can't take out I mean what are

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you gonna do mm-hmm well I guess he

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can't have Egg McMuffins anymore he's

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got to go Wendy's I wonder what Wendy's

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would do hmm

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today we're bringing back an old friend

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of the show former co-host yeah he is

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one of the good guys in the UFO field

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he's Greg Bishop and he's got something

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going on here where he's gonna be

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revealing some information about the

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aviary the aviary correct all those bird

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guys that we were hearing

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in the late 80s Early 90s Falcon

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Eaglehawk penguin they didn't have a

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buzzard did they I'm not sure but I

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understand Moseley was in the running to

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be Buzzard they did have penguin which I

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think whose penguin but we'll have to

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we'll have to go go down the list of the

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late burgess Meredith who played the

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penguin on TV in the Batman TV series I

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think was Alexander wasn't he penguin

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we'll have to ask Greg he's he's up on

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the bridge Danny DeVito played the

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penguin in the movie series directed by

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Tim Burton we have Greg Bishop joining

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gene and Chris you're in the para cast

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from you if you have a comment or

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question about the para cast cent

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347
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to visit our famous para caste community

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349
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we have a very very very special guest

350
00:14:29,290 --> 00:14:26,870
neighbors the return of Greg Bishop to

351
00:14:31,150 --> 00:14:29,300
the power castes been a while now during

352
00:14:33,340 --> 00:14:31,160
the time that we were using guest

353
00:14:35,170 --> 00:14:33,350
co-hosts Greg was kind enough to do

354
00:14:37,780 --> 00:14:35,180
several shows with us we had some really

355
00:14:39,250 --> 00:14:37,790
great programs and Walter Bosley and a

356
00:14:41,110 --> 00:14:39,260
number of other really fascinating

357
00:14:43,540 --> 00:14:41,120
guests and they'll be back in the future

358
00:14:46,900 --> 00:14:43,550
but right now we're going to talk to

359
00:14:49,630 --> 00:14:46,910
Greg about a very curious part of the

360
00:14:52,180 --> 00:14:49,640
UFO field I guess the world of

361
00:14:54,880 --> 00:14:52,190
disinformation is that what the aviary

362
00:14:56,890 --> 00:14:54,890
is all about about disinformation well

363
00:14:59,260 --> 00:14:56,900
that's the effect of it yeah

364
00:15:00,730 --> 00:14:59,270
the main effect of it but that's not the

365
00:15:04,150 --> 00:15:00,740
whole thing about the a bear it's a very

366
00:15:05,980 --> 00:15:04,160
complicated story and people choose to

367
00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:05,990
look at little bits of it make their

368
00:15:10,540 --> 00:15:07,610
opinion maybe we can change that a

369
00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:10,550
little bit well let's look at what we

370
00:15:14,770 --> 00:15:12,410
know about this I mean we've read all

371
00:15:18,760 --> 00:15:14,780
sorts of contradictory stories so let's

372
00:15:20,530 --> 00:15:18,770
do a background or here a 101 aviary

373
00:15:22,540 --> 00:15:20,540
presentation explained to our listeners

374
00:15:24,700 --> 00:15:22,550
what this is about what this

375
00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:24,710
organization is allegedly about and why

376
00:15:27,160 --> 00:15:26,330
should we even care well they're not

377
00:15:29,290 --> 00:15:27,170
around anymore

378
00:15:31,720 --> 00:15:29,300
I believe they've mostly disbanded and

379
00:15:34,420 --> 00:15:31,730
some of the people keep in touch still

380
00:15:36,490 --> 00:15:34,430
because of mutual interests but what it

381
00:15:37,660 --> 00:15:36,500
was was a group of people that worked

382
00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:37,670
for the government the US government

383
00:15:43,170 --> 00:15:40,730
they had a mutual interest in the UFO

384
00:15:47,890 --> 00:15:43,180
subject and other paranormal things and

385
00:15:49,930 --> 00:15:47,900
they for the most part work for military

386
00:15:51,100 --> 00:15:49,940
and intelligence or both there were

387
00:15:54,850 --> 00:15:51,110
people in it that were in Air Force

388
00:15:57,790 --> 00:15:54,860
intelligence in in the CIA a few other

389
00:15:59,950 --> 00:15:57,800
places a John Alexander was in there

390
00:16:02,050 --> 00:15:59,960
although he denies it John Alexander by

391
00:16:04,270 --> 00:16:02,060
the way has been on the power cast but

392
00:16:06,580 --> 00:16:04,280
he wanted me to this why I have no idea

393
00:16:08,410 --> 00:16:06,590
I confronted him once and I had I was

394
00:16:11,710 --> 00:16:08,420
trying to get to the bottom of this

395
00:16:13,060 --> 00:16:11,720
Falkon thing maybe by bugging him about

396
00:16:13,690 --> 00:16:13,070
and he said I have no idea what you're

397
00:16:15,460 --> 00:16:13,700
talking about

398
00:16:17,410 --> 00:16:15,470
I said well then I guess I've been lied

399
00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:17,420
to by a few people for a few years and

400
00:16:21,449 --> 00:16:18,970
said apparently and then that was the

401
00:16:23,639 --> 00:16:21,459
it wasn't he supposedly penguin yeah I

402
00:16:25,170 --> 00:16:23,649
think you're right yeah probably yeah I

403
00:16:27,119 --> 00:16:25,180
was trying to tell you that burgess

404
00:16:29,610 --> 00:16:27,129
meredith was a penguin or was it Danny

405
00:16:31,230 --> 00:16:29,620
DeVito I think you're both wrong I think

406
00:16:32,610 --> 00:16:31,240
you're yeah those those two are right

407
00:16:35,490 --> 00:16:32,620
there's a lot of penguins that's the

408
00:16:38,309 --> 00:16:35,500
problem with all this secrecy stuff okay

409
00:16:40,710 --> 00:16:38,319
so the ridiculousness of this I mean in

410
00:16:42,869 --> 00:16:40,720
some ways it's just absurd why would

411
00:16:44,550 --> 00:16:42,879
these people even be together in the

412
00:16:47,610 --> 00:16:44,560
first place what was the purpose of this

413
00:16:50,759 --> 00:16:47,620
group and why did they choose bird names

414
00:16:53,910 --> 00:16:50,769
they didn't choose the names that's

415
00:16:56,999 --> 00:16:53,920
another misconception UFO researcher

416
00:16:59,610 --> 00:16:57,009
bill Moore and his partner research

417
00:17:01,530 --> 00:16:59,620
partner Jamie Shan DeRay chose these

418
00:17:03,890 --> 00:17:01,540
names they were put in touch with this

419
00:17:08,069 --> 00:17:03,900
group because for a lot of reasons

420
00:17:09,569 --> 00:17:08,079
mainly to to get a handle on the UFO

421
00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:09,579
community and what they were doing and

422
00:17:13,799 --> 00:17:11,650
what they thought and they believed they

423
00:17:17,370 --> 00:17:13,809
were brought into this group to serve

424
00:17:18,779 --> 00:17:17,380
that purpose and so they none of this

425
00:17:21,149 --> 00:17:18,789
was official that's another thing people

426
00:17:23,399 --> 00:17:21,159
don't realize it wasn't some like thing

427
00:17:25,260 --> 00:17:23,409
where it's you know they they got

428
00:17:27,539 --> 00:17:25,270
together in meetings and you know and

429
00:17:29,250 --> 00:17:27,549
met and had minutes and you know and

430
00:17:31,020 --> 00:17:29,260
there's records that none of that I mean

431
00:17:34,340 --> 00:17:31,030
it was an informal group it was put up

432
00:17:39,230 --> 00:17:34,350
it was that way from the inception and

433
00:17:42,510 --> 00:17:39,240
at a certain point this guy Falcon

434
00:17:45,180 --> 00:17:42,520
decided that they were going to use the

435
00:17:47,490 --> 00:17:45,190
group for other purposes and the bird

436
00:17:49,470 --> 00:17:47,500
names came from Bill Moore and Jamie

437
00:17:52,110 --> 00:17:49,480
shandur a saying we need to talk about

438
00:17:53,760 --> 00:17:52,120
these people over the phone or when

439
00:17:55,770 --> 00:17:53,770
we're in public in a restaurant we're

440
00:17:57,480 --> 00:17:55,780
gonna assign names to these people bird

441
00:17:59,460 --> 00:17:57,490
names and then we can use you know we

442
00:18:01,740 --> 00:17:59,470
can use those names without fear of

443
00:18:03,270 --> 00:18:01,750
people figuring out who they are that

444
00:18:04,919 --> 00:18:03,280
that was the main reason for the bird

445
00:18:07,919 --> 00:18:04,929
names and they let the group themselves

446
00:18:10,830 --> 00:18:07,929
didn't run around saying hi I'm penguin

447
00:18:12,990 --> 00:18:10,840
hi I'm Falcon a mulcher

448
00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:13,000
yeah for that matter I'm not even sure

449
00:18:18,690 --> 00:18:14,650
if they knew they had bird names at the

450
00:18:20,880 --> 00:18:18,700
time wouldn't that be ironic no give us

451
00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:20,890
a timeframe here we're talking in 78 79

452
00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:25,210
80 oh I'm still here yeah that time

453
00:18:31,090 --> 00:18:28,690
frame 78 79 or was this the early 80s

454
00:18:33,640 --> 00:18:31,100
I'm a little hazy on that one

455
00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:33,650
when gender and more I think that they

456
00:18:40,690 --> 00:18:38,410
existed in some form before 1980 but

457
00:18:44,470 --> 00:18:40,700
they came to the attention or were

458
00:18:49,120 --> 00:18:44,480
introduced to bill more probably around

459
00:18:51,970 --> 00:18:49,130
80 81 something like that do I take this

460
00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:51,980
all happen after a bill more work with

461
00:18:56,260 --> 00:18:54,650
Charles Berlitz on the Roswell book yes

462
00:18:58,539 --> 00:18:56,270
I think that was the reason that bill

463
00:19:01,840 --> 00:18:58,549
Moore was brought in he received a phone

464
00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:01,850
call after being interviewed at a radio

465
00:19:07,060 --> 00:19:04,730
station I think an Albuquerque he

466
00:19:09,490 --> 00:19:07,070
received two but the second one I think

467
00:19:10,779 --> 00:19:09,500
was an Albuquerque and the person on the

468
00:19:11,980 --> 00:19:10,789
other end of the line said we think

469
00:19:14,110 --> 00:19:11,990
you're the only person that knows what

470
00:19:15,549 --> 00:19:14,120
they're talking about Peter ie based on

471
00:19:20,230 --> 00:19:15,559
the Roswell book and we'd like to talk

472
00:19:21,940 --> 00:19:20,240
to you is that then an admission that

473
00:19:24,850 --> 00:19:21,950
what he said about Roswell was accurate

474
00:19:27,399 --> 00:19:24,860
you know it was a it was a wait well it

475
00:19:29,500 --> 00:19:27,409
could be it was flattering for one thing

476
00:19:33,190 --> 00:19:29,510
know what it was was a way to get him

477
00:19:36,220 --> 00:19:33,200
interested in and to meet with the sky

478
00:19:38,020 --> 00:19:36,230
Falcon and see that see if he could be

479
00:19:40,990 --> 00:19:38,030
of any assistance to them they contacted

480
00:19:42,460 --> 00:19:41,000
other UFO researchers but only a few and

481
00:19:44,409 --> 00:19:42,470
some of them agreed to work with him I

482
00:19:46,270 --> 00:19:44,419
believe and some of them didn't okay

483
00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:46,280
let's look before we go into the

484
00:19:50,610 --> 00:19:48,890
interactions what other UFO researchers

485
00:19:53,260 --> 00:19:50,620
were contacted and how do we know that

486
00:19:55,210 --> 00:19:53,270
once again the only way we know it is

487
00:19:57,100 --> 00:19:55,220
from Bill Moore and he said there were

488
00:19:58,720 --> 00:19:57,110
others but he couldn't reveal who they

489
00:20:01,080 --> 00:19:58,730
were because it wasn't his business and

490
00:20:04,480 --> 00:20:01,090
I don't think he was actually 100% sure

491
00:20:07,029 --> 00:20:04,490
a lot of people have pointed fingers at

492
00:20:10,060 --> 00:20:07,039
Bruce Maccabee I really don't know it

493
00:20:14,230 --> 00:20:10,070
means it seems to make sense but I can't

494
00:20:18,419 --> 00:20:14,240
say for sure and also people like dr. J

495
00:20:21,190 --> 00:20:18,429
Allen Hynek perhaps Jacque fillet yeah

496
00:20:23,620 --> 00:20:21,200
well perhaps Jacques play but you have

497
00:20:25,600 --> 00:20:23,630
to remember dr. Lee was it was and I

498
00:20:30,070 --> 00:20:25,610
don't think still as an American citizen

499
00:20:31,570 --> 00:20:30,080
I I don't think he is I'm not sure so I

500
00:20:35,350 --> 00:20:31,580
don't think that he'd be privy to a lot

501
00:20:36,909 --> 00:20:35,360
of the some of the intelligence secrets

502
00:20:39,669 --> 00:20:36,919
what you know that you know the French

503
00:20:43,060 --> 00:20:39,679
are allies obviously but it's not

504
00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:43,070
they're not United States you know he's

505
00:20:47,889 --> 00:20:44,570
not a United States citizen so

506
00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:47,899
I that he was approached and if he I

507
00:20:51,100 --> 00:20:49,850
don't think he needed to be approached I

508
00:20:53,590 --> 00:20:51,110
think he knew enough people that he

509
00:20:55,210 --> 00:20:53,600
moved in those circles anyway so if they

510
00:20:57,159 --> 00:20:55,220
needed to contact him

511
00:21:01,389 --> 00:20:57,169
pick up the phone say Jacque we have a

512
00:21:03,820 --> 00:21:01,399
problem yeah I don't know if he ever

513
00:21:06,100 --> 00:21:03,830
really did anything active in the way

514
00:21:08,259 --> 00:21:06,110
that people think that the the UFO

515
00:21:11,710 --> 00:21:08,269
community was contacted and used in the

516
00:21:14,590 --> 00:21:11,720
in the aviary context or at least the

517
00:21:16,869 --> 00:21:14,600
bill more context but I think he knew

518
00:21:18,909 --> 00:21:16,879
enough and knew enough people that yeah

519
00:21:20,259 --> 00:21:18,919
I think he was questioned and asked in

520
00:21:21,940 --> 00:21:20,269
his opinion was considered very

521
00:21:24,669 --> 00:21:21,950
carefully by certain people when they

522
00:21:27,460 --> 00:21:24,679
wouldn't needed to be now before we get

523
00:21:31,899 --> 00:21:27,470
into more details why do we believe bill

524
00:21:33,700 --> 00:21:31,909
more when he says these things came up

525
00:21:37,930 --> 00:21:33,710
on the forums like that no that's one of

526
00:21:40,509 --> 00:21:37,940
mine okay well the reason I believe him

527
00:21:42,009 --> 00:21:40,519
is mainly and this is going to be weak

528
00:21:44,830 --> 00:21:42,019
for many people he's a friend of mine

529
00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:44,840
and I've never caught him in a lie

530
00:21:50,049 --> 00:21:47,210
he's told me a lot of things that I've

531
00:21:51,669 --> 00:21:50,059
never talked about that turned out to be

532
00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:51,679
true he's led me in directions that

533
00:21:55,659 --> 00:21:53,570
turned out to be useful and fruitful and

534
00:22:01,360 --> 00:21:55,669
I have no reason to think he would lie

535
00:22:03,129 --> 00:22:01,370
to me at least I haven't found any yet

536
00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:03,139
and I haven't really talked to him very

537
00:22:06,940 --> 00:22:04,730
much at all in the last few years he's

538
00:22:09,460 --> 00:22:06,950
he's taken retiring from the UFO

539
00:22:11,850 --> 00:22:09,470
community very seriously now he doesn't

540
00:22:14,950 --> 00:22:11,860
interact with anyone no not at all

541
00:22:19,360 --> 00:22:14,960
Greg's one of the few if one of the only

542
00:22:21,519 --> 00:22:19,370
Greg oh who else do we know with a fair

543
00:22:24,009 --> 00:22:21,529
degree of certainty we're in this

544
00:22:26,350 --> 00:22:24,019
particular group and and how do their

545
00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:26,360
particular bird names associate with

546
00:22:30,430 --> 00:22:28,730
particular individuals will get that

547
00:22:33,009 --> 00:22:30,440
answer in a moment we have to do this

548
00:22:35,649 --> 00:22:33,019
break Greg Bishop joining us telling us

549
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about the life and times of the aviary a

550
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very peculiar intelligence type of

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organization involved in the UFO field

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with gene and Chris you're in the para

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hi this is Don Ecker and you are tuned

659
00:27:09,210 --> 00:27:06,850
in to the para cast let me tell you what

660
00:27:12,750 --> 00:27:09,220
you're gonna hear stuff here that you

661
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probably won't hear anywhere else hear

662
00:27:16,950 --> 00:27:14,490
that George Noory

663
00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:16,960
with gene and Chris and the power casts

664
00:27:21,630 --> 00:27:19,570
Greg Bishop former power cast co-host

665
00:27:23,850 --> 00:27:21,640
and friend of the show joining us we're

666
00:27:26,370 --> 00:27:23,860
talking about the aviary and will soon

667
00:27:27,990 --> 00:27:26,380
reveal I guess who Falcon was but a

668
00:27:31,470 --> 00:27:28,000
question was asked by Chris before the

669
00:27:34,860 --> 00:27:31,480
break about the membership of the group

670
00:27:37,049 --> 00:27:34,870
what the names were how we know this etc

671
00:27:39,270 --> 00:27:37,059
well the only way we know it is that I

672
00:27:41,130 --> 00:27:39,280
think that people sort of figured it out

673
00:27:43,890 --> 00:27:41,140
over the years maybe through hints from

674
00:27:45,899 --> 00:27:43,900
Bill Moore etc at the time it was going

675
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:45,909
on nobody even knew it existed I mean up

676
00:27:50,610 --> 00:27:48,010
to probably 1989 when Bill Moore

677
00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:50,620
announced that he had been working with

678
00:27:54,149 --> 00:27:52,570
some of these people nobody even knew

679
00:27:55,710 --> 00:27:54,159
that the group existed and since then

680
00:27:59,340 --> 00:27:55,720
people have made guesses about who these

681
00:28:01,500 --> 00:27:59,350
people were one one name it comes up a

682
00:28:04,580 --> 00:28:01,510
lot that's been fairly well documented

683
00:28:08,549 --> 00:28:04,590
as how put off people know who that is I

684
00:28:10,260 --> 00:28:08,559
don't explain who how put off his okay I

685
00:28:12,419 --> 00:28:10,270
was we have to identify all the people

686
00:28:15,360 --> 00:28:12,429
here not everybody plays the inside

687
00:28:17,100 --> 00:28:15,370
baseball game he was in navy and maybe

688
00:28:20,580 --> 00:28:17,110
in naval intelligence and then after

689
00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:20,590
that he became a research scientist he

690
00:28:24,630 --> 00:28:22,770
was he was one of the people that was

691
00:28:26,669 --> 00:28:24,640
responsible for the remote viewing

692
00:28:30,390 --> 00:28:26,679
program he did testing on uri geller

693
00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:30,400
very early on he and another scientist

694
00:28:37,230 --> 00:28:34,770
Russell Targ began very preliminary

695
00:28:40,710 --> 00:28:37,240
testing for the for the what became the

696
00:28:42,270 --> 00:28:40,720
reviewing program in the late 70s he's

697
00:28:44,460 --> 00:28:42,280
always been interested in UFOs and the

698
00:28:47,100 --> 00:28:44,470
paranormal he was a co-author of a great

699
00:28:48,779 --> 00:28:47,110
paper about what's it what's the word

700
00:28:50,909 --> 00:28:48,789
theoretical physics and how it can

701
00:28:52,860 --> 00:28:50,919
support the extra-terrestrial hypothesis

702
00:28:55,289 --> 00:28:52,870
which I always champion even though I'm

703
00:28:58,580 --> 00:28:55,299
not an ETH person anyway important

704
00:29:01,560 --> 00:28:58,590
person in the history of official

705
00:29:04,710 --> 00:29:01,570
interest in the paranormal and UFOs he's

706
00:29:07,110 --> 00:29:04,720
still important he works of course he's

707
00:29:08,820 --> 00:29:07,120
working with defense contracts in Austin

708
00:29:10,789 --> 00:29:08,830
right now with a

709
00:29:13,710 --> 00:29:10,799
you know with a physics think-tank and

710
00:29:16,110 --> 00:29:13,720
is very still very active in in the

711
00:29:19,350 --> 00:29:16,120
field of science and theoretical physics

712
00:29:22,860 --> 00:29:19,360
he and Jack Sarfati have had a a bit of

713
00:29:25,789 --> 00:29:22,870
a how would I put it professional

714
00:29:28,470 --> 00:29:25,799
disagreement over zero-point energy and

715
00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:28,480
that has gone I'm kind of burbled

716
00:29:34,169 --> 00:29:31,090
underneath the surface of ufology for a

717
00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:34,179
number of years have been very public in

718
00:29:40,190 --> 00:29:37,210
their and their differences over trying

719
00:29:43,350 --> 00:29:40,200
to I think the main difference is is

720
00:29:45,299 --> 00:29:43,360
basing their theories on Einstein's

721
00:29:49,259 --> 00:29:45,309
theory of relativity and keeping that in

722
00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:49,269
in mind and I think it's uh I'm not sure

723
00:29:53,009 --> 00:29:51,130
which one of them is trying to adhere to

724
00:29:55,259 --> 00:29:53,019
relativity and the other one is not it's

725
00:29:56,700 --> 00:29:55,269
either Sarfati is or poot office and

726
00:29:59,129 --> 00:29:56,710
they've they've kind of been disagreeing

727
00:30:01,950 --> 00:29:59,139
for a while professionally but but hal

728
00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:01,960
is still very active and as you

729
00:30:06,509 --> 00:30:03,850
mentioned greg was very involved early

730
00:30:08,940 --> 00:30:06,519
on with CIA funded projects at the

731
00:30:12,870 --> 00:30:08,950
stanford research institute which then

732
00:30:15,419 --> 00:30:12,880
became you know the the early Ingo Swan

733
00:30:17,820 --> 00:30:15,429
Pat price remote-viewing protocols and

734
00:30:23,610 --> 00:30:17,830
experiments okay so what was his bird

735
00:30:27,180 --> 00:30:23,620
name I believe he was owl okay yes we

736
00:30:29,759 --> 00:30:27,190
have owl who's how put off yes big owl

737
00:30:30,379 --> 00:30:29,769
like eyes so that makes sense yeah that

738
00:30:33,919 --> 00:30:30,389
makes sense

739
00:30:37,649 --> 00:30:33,929
okay who else I believe one of them was

740
00:30:40,350 --> 00:30:37,659
as we mentioned before Bruce Maccabee

741
00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:40,360
who was called seagull because he was I

742
00:30:46,110 --> 00:30:42,730
believe because he was in associated

743
00:30:47,610 --> 00:30:46,120
with the Navy yeah I'm so and I yeah wow

744
00:30:52,529 --> 00:30:47,620
it sounds like Chris might know more

745
00:30:56,610 --> 00:30:52,539
than me actually let's see who else Jack

746
00:30:58,230 --> 00:30:56,620
Verona who's a kind of a shadowy figure

747
00:31:00,870 --> 00:30:58,240
that no really nobody really knows about

748
00:31:03,659 --> 00:31:00,880
I've seen him on a roster of the Defense

749
00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:03,669
Intelligence Agency from 1981 instead of

750
00:31:09,180 --> 00:31:07,210
one of their programs KITT green

751
00:31:12,149 --> 00:31:09,190
obviously people heard of him he used to

752
00:31:14,490 --> 00:31:12,159
work at the CIA used to field all their

753
00:31:17,460 --> 00:31:14,500
strange questions about weird phenomena

754
00:31:21,090 --> 00:31:17,470
UFOs etc mainly because he hasn't had an

755
00:31:22,690 --> 00:31:21,100
interest in it personally I think it is

756
00:31:27,850 --> 00:31:22,700
working with how

757
00:31:30,070 --> 00:31:27,860
really okay believe he's a I believe

758
00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:30,080
he's a medical doctor is he the one

759
00:31:35,620 --> 00:31:31,490
that's a medical doctor he's working in

760
00:31:37,990 --> 00:31:35,630
Detroit somewhere no I'm not sure about

761
00:31:40,330 --> 00:31:38,000
that okay yeah yeah I think you're right

762
00:31:42,370 --> 00:31:40,340
actually or is it Eric Davis it might be

763
00:31:44,230 --> 00:31:42,380
Eric Davis that's working with how yeah

764
00:31:45,970 --> 00:31:44,240
I think it's Eric Davis Eric Davis is a

765
00:31:48,490 --> 00:31:45,980
fascinating guy I got to talk to him for

766
00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:48,500
a few hours once physicist he wasn't

767
00:31:54,669 --> 00:31:52,130
aviary people John Alexander as we've

768
00:31:57,970 --> 00:31:54,679
mentioned before also heavily involved

769
00:31:59,560 --> 00:31:57,980
in the remote viewing programs and very

770
00:32:01,870 --> 00:31:59,570
interested in the paranormal and UFOs

771
00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:01,880
for a long time but Alexander denies

772
00:32:06,910 --> 00:32:04,130
this what was the bird name again do you

773
00:32:08,530 --> 00:32:06,920
remember what it was Chris I can't

774
00:32:12,210 --> 00:32:08,540
remember John I thought he was penguin

775
00:32:15,190 --> 00:32:12,220
but you know I said I could be wrong I

776
00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:15,200
wonder who dodo was I it's either Dan

777
00:32:22,690 --> 00:32:20,570
Smith or Sarfati I was about I think

778
00:32:24,220 --> 00:32:22,700
people some people were added later by

779
00:32:26,230 --> 00:32:24,230
other people they weren't originally

780
00:32:28,060 --> 00:32:26,240
part of the core group that more in SH

781
00:32:31,210 --> 00:32:28,070
and aware stand away we're dealing with

782
00:32:32,890 --> 00:32:31,220
like I said Dan Smith or people like

783
00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:32,900
that I'm not sure if they were part of

784
00:32:36,070 --> 00:32:34,490
the core group I'm sure there's people

785
00:32:37,330 --> 00:32:36,080
that are yelling and screaming listening

786
00:32:39,250 --> 00:32:37,340
now saying you know you're wrong and

787
00:32:41,710 --> 00:32:39,260
this and that but I was more I'm more

788
00:32:43,630 --> 00:32:41,720
concerned about how the the interaction

789
00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:43,640
was between them the UFO community the

790
00:32:47,470 --> 00:32:45,530
government all that I I can't remember

791
00:32:49,780 --> 00:32:47,480
who the names all the names of the

792
00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:49,790
people but the main players I've just

793
00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:52,130
listed well what other birds are out

794
00:32:54,970 --> 00:32:53,450
there that we haven't been able to

795
00:32:57,100 --> 00:32:54,980
attach a name to I mean there's

796
00:32:59,830 --> 00:32:57,110
obviously I would think that there would

797
00:33:02,440 --> 00:32:59,840
be an eagle there'd be a hawk there

798
00:33:04,060 --> 00:33:02,450
would be a falcon there'd be you know

799
00:33:05,500 --> 00:33:04,070
some of the more popular bird names out

800
00:33:07,180 --> 00:33:05,510
there what are the other bird names that

801
00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:07,190
you've heard associated with the aviary

802
00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:09,530
well I think there was hawk yes I can't

803
00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:10,850
remember who that was it might might

804
00:33:15,310 --> 00:33:13,730
have been Robert Collins or maybe he was

805
00:33:18,669 --> 00:33:15,320
Condor that's right Robert Collins was

806
00:33:20,260 --> 00:33:18,679
Condor Richard Doty and I he might have

807
00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:20,270
been Hawk I'm not sure about that either

808
00:33:26,169 --> 00:33:22,970
but now Hector Doty is gotta be one of

809
00:33:28,299 --> 00:33:26,179
the more peculiar characters involved in

810
00:33:30,190 --> 00:33:28,309
the peripheral of the UFO field tell us

811
00:33:32,169 --> 00:33:30,200
what you know about Doty well what I

812
00:33:33,790 --> 00:33:32,179
know is like the other aviary members he

813
00:33:35,710 --> 00:33:33,800
had a deep interest in the in still does

814
00:33:38,590 --> 00:33:35,720
in the UFO subject he was

815
00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:38,600
working for the Air Force Office of

816
00:33:42,039 --> 00:33:40,730
Special Investigations although some

817
00:33:43,870 --> 00:33:42,049
people are now saying he was working for

818
00:33:44,620 --> 00:33:43,880
Air Force intelligence which is slightly

819
00:33:46,870 --> 00:33:44,630
different

820
00:33:49,570 --> 00:33:46,880
AAF OSI is kind of like the FBI or

821
00:33:52,180 --> 00:33:49,580
police force of the Air Force it's kind

822
00:33:54,399 --> 00:33:52,190
of like their equivalent of NCIS yeah

823
00:33:57,279 --> 00:33:54,409
yeah pretty much they basically are you

824
00:33:59,409 --> 00:33:57,289
know they investigates allegations and

825
00:34:01,419 --> 00:33:59,419
suspicions of criminal activity in the

826
00:34:04,630 --> 00:34:01,429
Air Force okay so he was a cop

827
00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:04,640
maybe now Richard Doty supposedly has

828
00:34:09,550 --> 00:34:06,890
done some screwy things his name by the

829
00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:09,560
way once again was I can't remember it

830
00:34:13,930 --> 00:34:11,210
might have been Hawkeye I don't think so

831
00:34:16,379 --> 00:34:13,940
though tell you something though I've

832
00:34:20,020 --> 00:34:16,389
been in touch on and off occasionally

833
00:34:21,700 --> 00:34:20,030
with Richard Doty I invited him on to

834
00:34:25,869 --> 00:34:21,710
the power cast I say let's talk the

835
00:34:28,450 --> 00:34:25,879
issues and he's very suspicious and says

836
00:34:30,369 --> 00:34:28,460
on the one hand I guess I'll come on and

837
00:34:34,030 --> 00:34:30,379
then when I say let's confirm it he

838
00:34:36,700 --> 00:34:34,040
disappears yeah well he likes doing that

839
00:34:39,430 --> 00:34:36,710
I think it's just I don't I think it's

840
00:34:41,649 --> 00:34:39,440
part flakiness but part also that he

841
00:34:44,409 --> 00:34:41,659
likes to keep a mystique about himself

842
00:34:46,510 --> 00:34:44,419
and that's just the way he is is he

843
00:34:48,579 --> 00:34:46,520
possibly a pretender to some degree he's

844
00:34:51,639 --> 00:34:48,589
seeking more prominence than he might

845
00:34:53,230 --> 00:34:51,649
otherwise deserve I don't know what he

846
00:34:55,089 --> 00:34:53,240
deserves really I mean it's not a

847
00:34:58,180 --> 00:34:55,099
question of a deserve I think he just

848
00:34:59,109 --> 00:34:58,190
likes he likes men a swift kick in the

849
00:35:01,540 --> 00:34:59,119
behind

850
00:35:03,490 --> 00:35:01,550
he likes messing with people I don't you

851
00:35:04,720 --> 00:35:03,500
know people get very upset about like

852
00:35:07,240 --> 00:35:04,730
why do you talk to Dodi and he's a

853
00:35:09,430 --> 00:35:07,250
horrible person it's like well you know

854
00:35:12,099 --> 00:35:09,440
what his job is to deceive people or

855
00:35:14,109 --> 00:35:12,109
used to be and he likes it I treat him

856
00:35:16,510 --> 00:35:14,119
as that I I'm you know I don't I I don't

857
00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:16,520
think it's right I wouldn't do it and I

858
00:35:20,079 --> 00:35:17,930
think it's caused problems for people

859
00:35:23,079 --> 00:35:20,089
but I want to find you know I like the

860
00:35:24,730 --> 00:35:23,089
guy personally he was okay with me he's

861
00:35:26,980 --> 00:35:24,740
not you know he's not a best friend or

862
00:35:28,570 --> 00:35:26,990
anything like that but I wanted to find

863
00:35:30,010 --> 00:35:28,580
out what made him tick in it and that's

864
00:35:31,540 --> 00:35:30,020
the other part of this whole equation if

865
00:35:33,910 --> 00:35:31,550
you don't listen and you don't play the

866
00:35:36,010 --> 00:35:33,920
game you get nothing but you if you

867
00:35:37,210 --> 00:35:36,020
decide to listen play the game and try

868
00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:37,220
and sort out the wheat from the chaff

869
00:35:41,650 --> 00:35:39,170
and the you know needle in the haystack

870
00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:41,660
and all that you might get something but

871
00:35:45,220 --> 00:35:43,130
if you don't listen these people you get

872
00:35:47,140 --> 00:35:45,230
self righteously indignant and say these

873
00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:47,150
people are horrible you know that that's

874
00:35:49,660 --> 00:35:48,410
the wrong way to go about it I think

875
00:35:52,779 --> 00:35:49,670
that's that's that's

876
00:35:54,609 --> 00:35:52,789
the black-and-white thinking which which

877
00:35:56,710 --> 00:35:54,619
I think stops a lot of people from

878
00:35:57,970 --> 00:35:56,720
learning and that that's unfortunate the

879
00:36:00,309 --> 00:35:57,980
key to try to understand their

880
00:36:02,230 --> 00:36:00,319
motivations for being involved what they

881
00:36:04,750 --> 00:36:02,240
did at least in terms of what they

882
00:36:06,700 --> 00:36:04,760
reveal about what they did I assume if

883
00:36:09,309 --> 00:36:06,710
this was real and they were genuinely

884
00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:09,319
involved in intelligence work they'd be

885
00:36:14,980 --> 00:36:12,170
under all sorts of security restrictions

886
00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:14,990
right yeah well of course they would and

887
00:36:20,559 --> 00:36:17,930
the other thing about this that that I

888
00:36:23,289 --> 00:36:20,569
believe was going on is like I said MJ I

889
00:36:25,450 --> 00:36:23,299
mean I'm sorry yeah the aviary was not

890
00:36:26,950 --> 00:36:25,460
an official group it was just a group of

891
00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:26,960
people that happened to be given a name

892
00:36:30,279 --> 00:36:28,490
by Bill Moore and Jamie Shannon direct

893
00:36:32,740 --> 00:36:30,289
okay this is an artificial designation

894
00:36:34,870 --> 00:36:32,750
again two more of the aviary and the

895
00:36:36,670 --> 00:36:34,880
makeup of the aviary and what they may

896
00:36:38,349 --> 00:36:36,680
or may not have done in the field we

897
00:36:42,570 --> 00:36:38,359
have Greg Bishop joining gene and Chris

898
00:36:42,580 --> 00:36:48,280
[Music]

899
00:36:55,070 --> 00:36:51,890
the gzn radio network providing the

900
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world with hard-hitting talk radio G C

901
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and great talk radio starts here Ray

902
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Perkins a reclusive veteran burned out

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from the Gulf War lives tortured by

904
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relentless perplexing nightmares

905
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nightmares of a horrific battle in deep

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space and of a mysterious woman is

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suffering an agony for her devastated

908
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world a woman not yet born calling

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across centuries to him then a

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coincidence leads him to his destiny his

911
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chance to alter the universe attack of

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1002
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1003
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this is Leslie Kane and I'm with the

1004
00:41:10,340 --> 00:41:06,780
Coalition for freedom of information and

1005
00:41:11,890 --> 00:41:10,350
you are listening to the podcast the

1006
00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:11,900
murky world of disinformation

1007
00:41:16,940 --> 00:41:13,890
intelligence and who knows what

1008
00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:16,950
exploring the aviary yeah I've got a

1009
00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:18,330
whole list of course that comes from

1010
00:41:23,420 --> 00:41:22,410
Richard Boylan so oh that was a list of

1011
00:41:27,350 --> 00:41:23,430
what we're talking about list of the

1012
00:41:29,540 --> 00:41:27,360
names yes yeah they're in it and what

1013
00:41:31,310 --> 00:41:29,550
their designations yeah they are I've

1014
00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:31,320
got a whole list here okay ladies and

1015
00:41:35,870 --> 00:41:33,690
gentlemen Chris has this list of people

1016
00:41:40,310 --> 00:41:35,880
who may or may not have been part of the

1017
00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:40,320
aviary and their bird names Chris yeah

1018
00:41:51,050 --> 00:41:50,060
blue jay was kick green green and blue

1019
00:41:53,780 --> 00:41:51,060
that's kind of an interesting

1020
00:41:55,100 --> 00:41:53,790
juxtaposition Ron Pandolfi who used to

1021
00:41:57,050 --> 00:41:55,110
be the deputy director of the division

1022
00:42:01,280 --> 00:41:57,060
of science and technology for the CIA

1023
00:42:03,650 --> 00:42:01,290
was Pelican supposedly how put off as we

1024
00:42:06,610 --> 00:42:03,660
mentioned was owl we don't know who

1025
00:42:09,760 --> 00:42:06,620
Raven was but candidates are kissinger

1026
00:42:13,010 --> 00:42:09,770
edward teller and brent scowcroft

1027
00:42:17,750 --> 00:42:13,020
penguin was supposedly alexander ernie

1028
00:42:21,740 --> 00:42:17,760
Keller Strauss interceptor was Hawk who

1029
00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:21,750
was he again he was a wright-patterson

1030
00:42:28,430 --> 00:42:25,410
Air Force Base guy in the 70s I believe

1031
00:42:31,130 --> 00:42:28,440
he was a colonel and Bill told me a

1032
00:42:33,230 --> 00:42:31,140
couple stories about him actually giving

1033
00:42:37,210 --> 00:42:33,240
him hints about go to where to look for

1034
00:42:39,290 --> 00:42:37,220
things in records and specifically also

1035
00:42:43,850 --> 00:42:39,300
underground stuff he actually gave him

1036
00:42:45,140 --> 00:42:43,860
hints about it and he had some contact

1037
00:42:48,140 --> 00:42:45,150
with all these people and he was in the

1038
00:42:50,780 --> 00:42:48,150
loop in the aviary yes it's a name that

1039
00:42:53,420 --> 00:42:50,790
doesn't get mentioned no no that's

1040
00:42:55,420 --> 00:42:53,430
that's he's one of those kind of skirt

1041
00:42:58,400 --> 00:42:55,430
around the the shadows type guys

1042
00:43:00,320 --> 00:42:58,410
according to Boylan there's some

1043
00:43:04,280 --> 00:43:00,330
question possibly Jacques filet was

1044
00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:04,290
partridge Bruce Maccabee was Siegel C B

1045
00:43:09,860 --> 00:43:07,290
Scott Jones another kind of peripheral

1046
00:43:13,370 --> 00:43:09,870
figure that I think is well

1047
00:43:15,350 --> 00:43:13,380
looked oftentimes was chickadee Condor

1048
00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:15,360
again as you mentioned was Robert

1049
00:43:21,790 --> 00:43:19,290
Collins Doty was falcon a bill Moore

1050
00:43:24,830 --> 00:43:21,800
himself may have been a sparrow in

1051
00:43:27,500 --> 00:43:24,840
conversations with Jamie Dale graph

1052
00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:27,510
another interesting peripheral character

1053
00:43:34,130 --> 00:43:30,810
could have been Harrier Jack Verona as

1054
00:43:36,830 --> 00:43:34,140
you mentioned before was designated with

1055
00:43:38,810 --> 00:43:36,840
a question mark nightingale and Jamie

1056
00:43:42,080 --> 00:43:38,820
Shan Dara I guess between him and Bill

1057
00:43:43,820 --> 00:43:42,090
was woodpecker I guess I don't think

1058
00:43:45,920 --> 00:43:43,830
they gave themselves names unless at

1059
00:43:48,080 --> 00:43:45,930
least I didn't I was aware of it yeah

1060
00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:48,090
Richard Doty I think was referred to as

1061
00:43:51,440 --> 00:43:50,010
sparrows you know especially light of

1062
00:43:53,270 --> 00:43:51,450
the fact that Falcon was a completely

1063
00:43:58,930 --> 00:43:53,280
different person okay

1064
00:44:03,110 --> 00:43:58,940
I love this one Gordon novel was Buzzard

1065
00:44:05,780 --> 00:44:03,120
and Dan Smith was Chicken Little and I

1066
00:44:08,060 --> 00:44:05,790
think Jack's are fought he was dodo I've

1067
00:44:10,690 --> 00:44:08,070
heard that but I'm like I won't swear to

1068
00:44:14,540 --> 00:44:10,700
it again people were not even around

1069
00:44:16,430 --> 00:44:14,550
these are all affiliates yeah but but

1070
00:44:19,970 --> 00:44:16,440
again you know listeners caveat emptor

1071
00:44:24,500 --> 00:44:19,980
don't take any of this as gospel this is

1072
00:44:28,610 --> 00:44:24,510
coming from the creative mind of Richard

1073
00:44:30,380 --> 00:44:28,620
Boylan from about 1995-96 yeah but this

1074
00:44:32,330 --> 00:44:30,390
is a very fascinating subject you know

1075
00:44:34,370 --> 00:44:32,340
and as we discussed with John Alexander

1076
00:44:37,670 --> 00:44:34,380
there have been informal groups that

1077
00:44:39,500 --> 00:44:37,680
have been put together to study of you

1078
00:44:41,180 --> 00:44:39,510
know the width and breadth and extent of

1079
00:44:43,250 --> 00:44:41,190
government military knowledge about the

1080
00:44:45,830 --> 00:44:43,260
UFO subject it you know this is highly

1081
00:44:48,680 --> 00:44:45,840
compartmentalized but I just I've always

1082
00:44:50,960 --> 00:44:48,690
loved this whole kind of scenario

1083
00:44:52,820 --> 00:44:50,970
because to me it's so like theatrical

1084
00:44:54,890 --> 00:44:52,830
and it has all these these wonderful

1085
00:44:56,960 --> 00:44:54,900
potential Hollywood elements and I I

1086
00:44:59,570 --> 00:44:56,970
could see a great movie coming out of

1087
00:45:01,550 --> 00:44:59,580
the aviary you know these guys getting

1088
00:45:03,470 --> 00:45:01,560
together and I mean it just has all

1089
00:45:06,410 --> 00:45:03,480
these real dramatic sort of overtones

1090
00:45:09,020 --> 00:45:06,420
but yeah make up something that didn't

1091
00:45:13,040 --> 00:45:09,030
happen whatsoever at all in real life to

1092
00:45:14,420 --> 00:45:13,050
have a storyline I mean you could

1093
00:45:17,210 --> 00:45:14,430
probably come up with a with a few

1094
00:45:20,810 --> 00:45:17,220
interpersonal reality show type twists

1095
00:45:22,250 --> 00:45:20,820
that might Gordon novel getting caught

1096
00:45:23,330 --> 00:45:22,260
up a telephone pole in the Black Forest

1097
00:45:25,370 --> 00:45:23,340
at the Stanley

1098
00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:25,380
case I love that one you have to think

1099
00:45:29,450 --> 00:45:27,090
what kind of reality show this would be

1100
00:45:33,920 --> 00:45:29,460
imagine sending James Fox and the crew

1101
00:45:35,870 --> 00:45:33,930
chasing UFOs after the aviary well maybe

1102
00:45:38,750 --> 00:45:35,880
we could invent a whole new genre of

1103
00:45:41,360 --> 00:45:38,760
television call it sir reality TV yes

1104
00:45:43,190 --> 00:45:41,370
I've talked about that probably with you

1105
00:45:46,940 --> 00:45:43,200
or other people as a joke but it Chris

1106
00:45:49,190 --> 00:45:46,950
is halfway serious it would be fun

1107
00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:49,200
explain this to people because this is

1108
00:45:57,110 --> 00:45:52,370
getting really obscure what about

1109
00:45:58,550 --> 00:45:57,120
reality TV yes it's it's it's I've heard

1110
00:46:00,140 --> 00:45:58,560
this kicked around before just

1111
00:46:02,030 --> 00:46:00,150
everything so silly with reality TV

1112
00:46:04,400 --> 00:46:02,040
right now why not just kick it up a

1113
00:46:06,820 --> 00:46:04,410
notch and make it even more insane and

1114
00:46:09,440 --> 00:46:06,830
an unreal but make people think it is

1115
00:46:10,940 --> 00:46:09,450
you know it's it this is way off the

1116
00:46:16,790 --> 00:46:10,950
subject but it's pretty damn funny

1117
00:46:19,400 --> 00:46:16,800
yeah we're project okay folks now

1118
00:46:20,930 --> 00:46:19,410
this is the entire group here now Falcon

1119
00:46:24,560 --> 00:46:20,940
we have two different individuals who

1120
00:46:26,420 --> 00:46:24,570
were allegedly Falcon right yeah Richard

1121
00:46:27,860 --> 00:46:26,430
Doty and this other guy which I've

1122
00:46:30,590 --> 00:46:27,870
already announced but we'll leave that

1123
00:46:33,140 --> 00:46:30,600
in the background for right now why do

1124
00:46:36,500 --> 00:46:33,150
this he's supposed to been the

1125
00:46:38,810 --> 00:46:36,510
ringleader of it no no Dodie was never a

1126
00:46:42,110 --> 00:46:38,820
ringleader of anything he was he was

1127
00:46:44,720 --> 00:46:42,120
working for the FOS eye and he was doing

1128
00:46:51,050 --> 00:46:44,730
there working is also doing the work of

1129
00:46:53,780 --> 00:46:51,060
a supposedly a this person Falcon who

1130
00:46:55,340 --> 00:46:53,790
had been tasked with finding Russian

1131
00:46:56,720 --> 00:46:55,350
agents and passing messages back and

1132
00:46:58,010 --> 00:46:56,730
forth and doing all that because he'd

1133
00:47:00,530 --> 00:46:58,020
done it for years he'd been doing it

1134
00:47:03,260 --> 00:47:00,540
since the nineteen late 40s now this

1135
00:47:05,930 --> 00:47:03,270
aviary was as strictly UFOs or was there

1136
00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:05,940
some other intelligence related work

1137
00:47:10,040 --> 00:47:07,290
that they were supposed to be involved

1138
00:47:12,230 --> 00:47:10,050
in well that they weren't involved in

1139
00:47:14,270 --> 00:47:12,240
UFO intelligence work I don't think

1140
00:47:16,640 --> 00:47:14,280
there's even such a thing what I think

1141
00:47:18,230 --> 00:47:16,650
they were involved with was trying to

1142
00:47:20,450 --> 00:47:18,240
find out for themselves

1143
00:47:22,880 --> 00:47:20,460
what was it what the government knows

1144
00:47:25,460 --> 00:47:22,890
about the UFO subject they were

1145
00:47:27,920 --> 00:47:25,470
basically what what UFO researchers are

1146
00:47:32,510 --> 00:47:27,930
except like maybe a level or two up in

1147
00:47:37,070 --> 00:47:32,520
the sense that they had access to people

1148
00:47:39,980 --> 00:47:37,080
records ways of finding things out

1149
00:47:42,160 --> 00:47:39,990
most people don't so what they did was

1150
00:47:45,590 --> 00:47:42,170
they banded together so that they could

1151
00:47:47,540 --> 00:47:45,600
use each other's expertise connections

1152
00:47:49,250 --> 00:47:47,550
and all that to try and find out what

1153
00:47:50,930 --> 00:47:49,260
was going on with the UFO subject how

1154
00:47:52,310 --> 00:47:50,940
much the government knew and there are

1155
00:47:54,590 --> 00:47:52,320
ants trying to answer the same questions

1156
00:47:56,690 --> 00:47:54,600
we all are now that's curious here you

1157
00:47:59,000 --> 00:47:56,700
think that an organization like that

1158
00:48:01,750 --> 00:47:59,010
made up of President former intelligence

1159
00:48:04,730 --> 00:48:01,760
officials will be really skirting a very

1160
00:48:07,280 --> 00:48:04,740
narrow thread or a tight rope here

1161
00:48:08,900 --> 00:48:07,290
trying to find out information about the

1162
00:48:10,820 --> 00:48:08,910
subject why would they why would they be

1163
00:48:12,200 --> 00:48:10,830
doing that it just like if you be at

1164
00:48:13,460 --> 00:48:12,210
work and you're trying to find out

1165
00:48:15,530 --> 00:48:13,470
what's going on with a certain project

1166
00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:15,540
you didn't have any access to it you

1167
00:48:19,750 --> 00:48:17,010
might be able to find the question is

1168
00:48:23,150 --> 00:48:19,760
need-to-know I mean we have that

1169
00:48:26,690 --> 00:48:23,160
compartmentalization yeah well there's I

1170
00:48:29,900 --> 00:48:26,700
think a lot of people specifically grant

1171
00:48:31,790 --> 00:48:29,910
Cameron have made the case that there

1172
00:48:33,350 --> 00:48:31,800
really isn't any secrecy with the UFO

1173
00:48:34,910 --> 00:48:33,360
subject and the government they we know

1174
00:48:36,680 --> 00:48:34,920
the government knows about it we know

1175
00:48:38,420 --> 00:48:36,690
the government is concerned with it we

1176
00:48:40,100 --> 00:48:38,430
know that they know something but what

1177
00:48:41,630 --> 00:48:40,110
that something is is the question what

1178
00:48:44,270 --> 00:48:41,640
what what they know and what they think

1179
00:48:47,060 --> 00:48:44,280
about it I think that's you know that

1180
00:48:49,970 --> 00:48:47,070
that's that's what the these people are

1181
00:48:53,270 --> 00:48:49,980
trying to find out go at the reality of

1182
00:48:55,520 --> 00:48:53,280
the of the project of the reality of the

1183
00:48:57,740 --> 00:48:55,530
the subject through official channels

1184
00:49:00,260 --> 00:48:57,750
and back channels and trying to get

1185
00:49:02,450 --> 00:49:00,270
information that way to confirm for

1186
00:49:04,730 --> 00:49:02,460
themselves that there really is some

1187
00:49:06,140 --> 00:49:04,740
reality behind UFO thick because I think

1188
00:49:07,880 --> 00:49:06,150
they all thought and still think that

1189
00:49:09,080 --> 00:49:07,890
they went about looking for that

1190
00:49:10,640 --> 00:49:09,090
information a little differently than

1191
00:49:13,940 --> 00:49:10,650
you and I would they didn't look at

1192
00:49:17,750 --> 00:49:13,950
cases and and Case Files and MUFON files

1193
00:49:19,850 --> 00:49:17,760
and UFO books they they looked at you

1194
00:49:22,670 --> 00:49:19,860
know reports to the Air Force and report

1195
00:49:24,890 --> 00:49:22,680
and you know communications between

1196
00:49:26,510 --> 00:49:24,900
different departments and all that stuff

1197
00:49:28,280 --> 00:49:26,520
and people that had had personal

1198
00:49:29,630 --> 00:49:28,290
experiences that don't really share it

1199
00:49:32,810 --> 00:49:29,640
in public but might share it with a

1200
00:49:36,800 --> 00:49:32,820
colleague okay so if we have an above

1201
00:49:38,960 --> 00:49:36,810
top-secret interest in UFOs in the

1202
00:49:40,850 --> 00:49:38,970
government wherever a black project

1203
00:49:43,400 --> 00:49:40,860
whatever wouldn't they come to these

1204
00:49:46,520 --> 00:49:43,410
people and say you know what don't talk

1205
00:49:49,460 --> 00:49:46,530
about this move away or does that draw

1206
00:49:50,840 --> 00:49:49,470
more attention to the subject well I

1207
00:49:53,690 --> 00:49:50,850
think these people

1208
00:49:57,710 --> 00:49:53,700
no these a lot of these people

1209
00:50:02,180 --> 00:49:57,720
specifically you know put off Alexander

1210
00:50:04,430 --> 00:50:02,190
kid green Pandolfi know what the game is

1211
00:50:06,410 --> 00:50:04,440
they know the rules of the game they

1212
00:50:08,480 --> 00:50:06,420
know how to play it they know whose toes

1213
00:50:10,490 --> 00:50:08,490
to step on and who's not to step on they

1214
00:50:13,820 --> 00:50:10,500
know how to get around things and they

1215
00:50:15,800 --> 00:50:13,830
know you know like I said they know that

1216
00:50:17,360 --> 00:50:15,810
intelligence game so that they're

1217
00:50:21,290 --> 00:50:17,370
they're playing with rules that we have

1218
00:50:23,360 --> 00:50:21,300
no idea about and they're using those

1219
00:50:25,070 --> 00:50:23,370
rules and they ultimately I don't think

1220
00:50:27,320 --> 00:50:25,080
they skirted the rules I think they

1221
00:50:29,030 --> 00:50:27,330
probably tried to go in between them

1222
00:50:30,470 --> 00:50:29,040
just try and find out some of these

1223
00:50:32,450 --> 00:50:30,480
things for themselves I don't think they

1224
00:50:33,710 --> 00:50:32,460
you know for my opinion I don't think

1225
00:50:36,020 --> 00:50:33,720
they ever found out what they wanted to

1226
00:50:38,600 --> 00:50:36,030
find out and that what the the end

1227
00:50:40,010 --> 00:50:38,610
conclusion for all this and I if you

1228
00:50:41,600 --> 00:50:40,020
ever I got help put off or one of these

1229
00:50:43,580 --> 00:50:41,610
people on I think they'd say the same

1230
00:50:45,290 --> 00:50:43,590
thing we found out the government's very

1231
00:50:48,680 --> 00:50:45,300
interested they know a lot more than

1232
00:50:49,730 --> 00:50:48,690
they're saying and that's it but the you

1233
00:50:51,230 --> 00:50:49,740
know but they're not going to they're

1234
00:50:54,740 --> 00:50:51,240
not going to reveal what it is because

1235
00:50:56,180 --> 00:50:54,750
it's just too destabilizing and I don't

1236
00:50:58,310 --> 00:50:56,190
think it's what what disclose your

1237
00:51:00,380 --> 00:50:58,320
people that all that I think it is I

1238
00:51:04,700 --> 00:51:00,390
think it's something far stranger and

1239
00:51:06,470 --> 00:51:04,710
and far more unknowable than most of us

1240
00:51:08,240 --> 00:51:06,480
think and that might might also be part

1241
00:51:10,310 --> 00:51:08,250
of the cover-up now speaking of the

1242
00:51:11,450 --> 00:51:10,320
cover-up I know if you look online you

1243
00:51:14,210 --> 00:51:11,460
do a google of this there's a

1244
00:51:16,760 --> 00:51:14,220
fascinating series of interviews that

1245
00:51:19,730 --> 00:51:16,770
Bob Pratt and major Donald Kehoe did

1246
00:51:22,340 --> 00:51:19,740
back I guess in the 1970s where you see

1247
00:51:24,950 --> 00:51:22,350
where Kehoe is at in terms of his

1248
00:51:26,870 --> 00:51:24,960
mindset about UFO secrecy looks for a

1249
00:51:29,030 --> 00:51:26,880
lot more we have Greg Bishop joining

1250
00:51:39,050 --> 00:51:29,040
gene and Chris you're in what Christo

1251
00:51:43,740 --> 00:51:41,340
America's number one source for

1252
00:51:44,690 --> 00:51:43,750
independent talk retails for over a

1253
00:51:49,920 --> 00:51:44,700
decade

1254
00:51:51,690 --> 00:51:49,930
we are the gcn radio network hi this is

1255
00:51:53,910 --> 00:51:51,700
Ted Anderson if you'd like to listen to

1256
00:51:56,550 --> 00:51:53,920
GCN programs on the goal I have great

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news gzn has created a Droid and iPhone

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banner and download before you know it

1261
00:52:06,660 --> 00:52:04,390
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1262
00:52:09,180 --> 00:52:06,670
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1266
00:52:17,010 --> 00:52:15,010
banner at juicy and live.com thanks

1267
00:52:19,380 --> 00:52:17,020
again for listening to GC and live.com

1268
00:52:21,090 --> 00:52:19,390
again that's juicy and live.com hi this

1269
00:52:22,800 --> 00:52:21,100
is Ted Anderson have you ever wondered

1270
00:52:24,630 --> 00:52:22,810
why banks stockbrokers investment

1271
00:52:26,910 --> 00:52:24,640
advisors won't talk about gold IRAs

1272
00:52:28,680 --> 00:52:26,920
they've been available since 1986 yet

1273
00:52:30,600 --> 00:52:28,690
the financial industry won't recognize

1274
00:52:32,520 --> 00:52:30,610
the value of gold for your retirement

1275
00:52:34,680 --> 00:52:32,530
gold has outperformed paper investments

1276
00:52:50,450 --> 00:52:34,690
yet no word about IRAs if you would like

1277
00:52:50,460 --> 00:53:08,930
[Music]

1278
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1279
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1280
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1289
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1290
00:54:04,500 --> 00:54:00,160
welcome back to the para cast the gold

1291
00:54:11,680 --> 00:54:04,510
standard of paranormal radio and now

1292
00:54:14,590 --> 00:54:11,690
here's Jane Steinberg she have Greg

1293
00:54:17,170 --> 00:54:14,600
Bishop rejoining the power cast talking

1294
00:54:18,970 --> 00:54:17,180
about the aviary possible government

1295
00:54:19,810 --> 00:54:18,980
disinformation what the government knows

1296
00:54:22,690 --> 00:54:19,820
and doesn't know

1297
00:54:26,650 --> 00:54:22,700
now if you go back and this is by the

1298
00:54:28,510 --> 00:54:26,660
way in the archives of MUFON this long

1299
00:54:32,320 --> 00:54:28,520
set of interviews between matric a hoe

1300
00:54:35,859 --> 00:54:32,330
and Bob Pratt and what you find there is

1301
00:54:39,700 --> 00:54:35,869
Kehoe was always convinced a hundred

1302
00:54:41,859 --> 00:54:39,710
percent convinced that there was a

1303
00:54:45,160 --> 00:54:41,869
silence group within the US government

1304
00:54:48,550 --> 00:54:45,170
was handling the UFO secrecy believed

1305
00:54:52,120 --> 00:54:48,560
that et was here and that if you gave

1306
00:54:54,820 --> 00:54:52,130
them the right reason or enough pressure

1307
00:54:56,349 --> 00:54:54,830
they would disclose that but now we're

1308
00:54:57,580 --> 00:54:56,359
starting to see with an aviary we have

1309
00:54:59,050 --> 00:54:57,590
another group of people with

1310
00:55:00,130 --> 00:54:59,060
intelligence connections they're trying

1311
00:55:02,470 --> 00:55:00,140
to find out what the government knows

1312
00:55:05,280 --> 00:55:02,480
about it it sounds to me like this is

1313
00:55:10,300 --> 00:55:05,290
really buried under many many levels

1314
00:55:13,210 --> 00:55:10,310
yeah well I think it is and it's so I

1315
00:55:14,800 --> 00:55:13,220
think it's such a complicated subject I

1316
00:55:16,630 --> 00:55:14,810
think it's a lot more complicated than

1317
00:55:18,580 --> 00:55:16,640
most people think it's not aliens coming

1318
00:55:19,930 --> 00:55:18,590
here from other planets and they're you

1319
00:55:22,960 --> 00:55:19,940
know coming here and ships and all that

1320
00:55:24,970 --> 00:55:22,970
if it was i think if it was that simple

1321
00:55:28,080 --> 00:55:24,980
there probably be more secrecy because

1322
00:55:31,000 --> 00:55:28,090
it'd be pretty much a lock on what it is

1323
00:55:32,980 --> 00:55:31,010
the fact that it is you know i mean if

1324
00:55:34,930 --> 00:55:32,990
you read any UFO literature for any

1325
00:55:38,109 --> 00:55:34,940
amount of time you realize how

1326
00:55:41,099 --> 00:55:38,119
incredibly strange it is how it affects

1327
00:55:44,620 --> 00:55:41,109
people that are exposed to it and and

1328
00:55:47,380 --> 00:55:44,630
how unknowable and how indescribable it

1329
00:55:49,690 --> 00:55:47,390
is for some people for a lot of people

1330
00:55:51,430 --> 00:55:49,700
actually and so it's I don't think it's

1331
00:55:54,609 --> 00:55:51,440
a simple question I don't think it's a

1332
00:55:56,440 --> 00:55:54,619
simple solution and I think the people

1333
00:55:58,270 --> 00:55:56,450
in the government at least people that

1334
00:55:59,800 --> 00:55:58,280
sort of know what's going on with the

1335
00:56:01,750 --> 00:55:59,810
subject know that

1336
00:56:03,280 --> 00:56:01,760
and what are they gonna do come out and

1337
00:56:04,840 --> 00:56:03,290
say well it's really strange and we

1338
00:56:06,820 --> 00:56:04,850
don't really know how to handle it so

1339
00:56:08,170 --> 00:56:06,830
that's our only explanation you can't

1340
00:56:10,120 --> 00:56:08,180
announce that you have to announce that

1341
00:56:11,710 --> 00:56:10,130
you have complete control of something

1342
00:56:13,840 --> 00:56:11,720
and that you know exactly what it is

1343
00:56:16,450 --> 00:56:13,850
well that may be a legitimate reason for

1344
00:56:18,580 --> 00:56:16,460
secrecy because you don't want to panic

1345
00:56:20,560 --> 00:56:18,590
the populace you want people to believe

1346
00:56:21,730 --> 00:56:20,570
the government is in control of course

1347
00:56:23,800 --> 00:56:21,740
nowadays we don't believe the government

1348
00:56:25,690 --> 00:56:23,810
we don't believe they know anything we

1349
00:56:26,980 --> 00:56:25,700
don't believe they're competent we don't

1350
00:56:29,280 --> 00:56:26,990
believe anything they say and I would

1351
00:56:32,530 --> 00:56:29,290
think that if the Secretary of Defense

1352
00:56:34,660 --> 00:56:32,540
tomorrow it's not gonna happen folks

1353
00:56:35,170 --> 00:56:34,670
don't quote me on this if the Secretary

1354
00:56:37,030 --> 00:56:35,180
of Defense

1355
00:56:39,670 --> 00:56:37,040
tomorrow gone on television national TV

1356
00:56:41,320 --> 00:56:39,680
and said we have this UFO phenomenon

1357
00:56:44,050 --> 00:56:41,330
things are flying in our skies we don't

1358
00:56:46,030 --> 00:56:44,060
know what they are they'd laugh at him

1359
00:56:47,590 --> 00:56:46,040
they'd laugh him off the podium yeah

1360
00:56:51,160 --> 00:56:47,600
because he's not saying anything that

1361
00:56:53,500 --> 00:56:51,170
UFO researchers haven't already said so

1362
00:56:55,330 --> 00:56:53,510
it's it's a told John keel joke the US

1363
00:56:56,650 --> 00:56:55,340
government isn't telling you I mean UFO

1364
00:56:59,200 --> 00:56:56,660
researchers aren't telling the US

1365
00:57:00,670 --> 00:56:59,210
government what they know about UFOs you

1366
00:57:02,140 --> 00:57:00,680
know it's it's a stupid it's it's a

1367
00:57:04,780 --> 00:57:02,150
silly sounding joke but I think there's

1368
00:57:07,210 --> 00:57:04,790
some truth there it's it's I think it's

1369
00:57:09,100 --> 00:57:07,220
unknowable by the vast majority of

1370
00:57:11,020 --> 00:57:09,110
people who look into it and it may be

1371
00:57:12,280 --> 00:57:11,030
unknowable by humans at this point in

1372
00:57:13,660 --> 00:57:12,290
history because the thing doesn't

1373
00:57:16,030 --> 00:57:13,670
interact with us in the way that people

1374
00:57:17,590 --> 00:57:16,040
would expect there's no give-and-take I

1375
00:57:20,520 --> 00:57:17,600
don't think there's a I don't think

1376
00:57:23,920 --> 00:57:20,530
there's a direct relationship between

1377
00:57:25,930 --> 00:57:23,930
whatever this intelligence is in us in

1378
00:57:28,660 --> 00:57:25,940
the way that we would expect to be in

1379
00:57:33,250 --> 00:57:28,670
interacting with something it interacts

1380
00:57:34,440 --> 00:57:33,260
in a cheesing way as chris has written

1381
00:57:36,840 --> 00:57:34,450
about extensively

1382
00:57:39,310 --> 00:57:36,850
well brings up an interesting question

1383
00:57:42,010 --> 00:57:39,320
Greg from Apocalypto who's been a

1384
00:57:44,980 --> 00:57:42,020
longtime poster at the forum he said

1385
00:57:47,620 --> 00:57:44,990
well first of all he kind of gives you a

1386
00:57:49,570 --> 00:57:47,630
an interesting compliment here you

1387
00:57:51,850 --> 00:57:49,580
clearly have a good sense of humor about

1388
00:57:53,920 --> 00:57:51,860
the subject of UFOs does that help you

1389
00:57:56,230 --> 00:57:53,930
keep things in perspective but then he

1390
00:57:58,360 --> 00:57:56,240
goes on to say recently you posted a

1391
00:58:01,300 --> 00:57:58,370
podcast with the title are we finally

1392
00:58:04,630 --> 00:58:01,310
bored with UFOs so my question is to you

1393
00:58:08,080 --> 00:58:04,640
Greg from Apocalypto are you bored of it

1394
00:58:12,310 --> 00:58:08,090
and if so what particular aspect of the

1395
00:58:13,660 --> 00:58:12,320
phenomenon are you tired of that thing

1396
00:58:15,700 --> 00:58:13,670
with it was an interview

1397
00:58:18,280 --> 00:58:15,710
you with Tim banal who's a good friend

1398
00:58:20,559 --> 00:58:18,290
of mine and we were talking about the

1399
00:58:24,220 --> 00:58:20,569
UFO subject he got he got tired of all

1400
00:58:27,430 --> 00:58:24,230
the the fighting and the you know the

1401
00:58:29,559 --> 00:58:27,440
hobbyist nature of it and basically just

1402
00:58:32,049 --> 00:58:29,569
the you know people don't one don't have

1403
00:58:33,789 --> 00:58:32,059
a sense of humor and to don't look for

1404
00:58:36,160 --> 00:58:33,799
don't see and don't look for a bigger

1405
00:58:38,920 --> 00:58:36,170
picture I think that's what we were

1406
00:58:41,049 --> 00:58:38,930
complaining about and I I think you know

1407
00:58:42,849 --> 00:58:41,059
it's bombast you put a headline up so

1408
00:58:44,950 --> 00:58:42,859
people will read it and if people choose

1409
00:58:47,680 --> 00:58:44,960
to take it seriously well you know too

1410
00:58:49,569 --> 00:58:47,690
bad I wasn't totally serious about that

1411
00:58:52,480 --> 00:58:49,579
what we're bored with is what I just

1412
00:58:54,760 --> 00:58:52,490
said all the stuff surrounding it I'm

1413
00:58:57,430 --> 00:58:54,770
not bored with the with the phenomenon

1414
00:58:59,079 --> 00:58:57,440
itself I think there's still there

1415
00:59:00,880 --> 00:58:59,089
there's still something to be explored

1416
00:59:04,410 --> 00:59:00,890
there but exploring it the way that

1417
00:59:06,370 --> 00:59:04,420
we've been exploring it as you know

1418
00:59:08,440 --> 00:59:06,380
creatures from another planet coming

1419
00:59:10,240 --> 00:59:08,450
here in structured craft that that's

1420
00:59:11,589 --> 00:59:10,250
what we're bored of I think that I think

1421
00:59:15,370 --> 00:59:11,599
that idea should be done away with

1422
00:59:19,089 --> 00:59:15,380
completely no man because I love hearing

1423
00:59:22,270 --> 00:59:19,099
you say that not because it's wrong but

1424
00:59:24,130 --> 00:59:22,280
because it's not interesting right we've

1425
00:59:26,289 --> 00:59:24,140
been saying that for you know people

1426
00:59:28,900 --> 00:59:26,299
have been saying this for 50 years or

1427
00:59:31,210 --> 00:59:28,910
more 60 years or more and it's gotten us

1428
00:59:32,589 --> 00:59:31,220
nowhere I mean we still think that we

1429
00:59:34,450 --> 00:59:32,599
still haven't solved the problem so why

1430
00:59:36,520 --> 00:59:34,460
not look at it in another way and I'm

1431
00:59:38,410 --> 00:59:36,530
it's not a baby with the bathwater let's

1432
00:59:39,190 --> 00:59:38,420
throw it out I'm once again I'm using

1433
00:59:41,260 --> 00:59:39,200
bombast

1434
00:59:44,410 --> 00:59:41,270
stop concentrating on that and maybe

1435
00:59:46,299 --> 00:59:44,420
other ideas will come up exactly already

1436
00:59:47,799 --> 00:59:46,309
I mean if you look at the literature any

1437
00:59:51,039 --> 00:59:47,809
of the writing like Chris's or Mac

1438
00:59:53,950 --> 00:59:51,049
Tony's or even years ago this book I

1439
00:59:55,660 --> 00:59:53,960
found again rebirth of pan any of these

1440
00:59:59,770 --> 00:59:55,670
John keel Jacques Calais all these

1441
01:00:01,299 --> 00:59:59,780
people Gregg little you you see that

1442
01:00:03,309 --> 01:00:01,309
there are different ways of looking at

1443
01:00:05,589 --> 01:00:03,319
the Pennsy subject and I think these

1444
01:00:07,079 --> 01:00:05,599
people in the aviary probably were

1445
01:00:09,250 --> 01:00:07,089
looking at it in this way and

1446
01:00:12,069 --> 01:00:09,260
approaching it in this way years before

1447
01:00:15,099 --> 01:00:12,079
we were I have to say this that even Jim

1448
01:00:17,380 --> 01:00:15,109
Mosley and myself and Allan Greenfield

1449
01:00:19,120 --> 01:00:17,390
in the 60s and 70s we were looking at

1450
01:00:20,289 --> 01:00:19,130
alternative explanations that were

1451
01:00:22,510 --> 01:00:20,299
fascinating lots of incredible

1452
01:00:25,150 --> 01:00:22,520
possibilities but what seems to happen

1453
01:00:27,549 --> 01:00:25,160
in the UFO fields it goes in cycles so

1454
01:00:29,589 --> 01:00:27,559
in the 50s and 60s it was et

1455
01:00:31,630 --> 01:00:29,599
we started exploring the other avenues

1456
01:00:33,699 --> 01:00:31,640
and then in the 80's and 90's we go back

1457
01:00:35,439 --> 01:00:33,709
to ET again it's just like going in a

1458
01:00:37,539 --> 01:00:35,449
revolving circle and we never get

1459
01:00:39,849 --> 01:00:37,549
anywhere because we're always starting

1460
01:00:41,410 --> 01:00:39,859
at the beginning and barely getting to

1461
01:00:44,049 --> 01:00:41,420
the middle so there's never an endgame

1462
01:00:46,900 --> 01:00:44,059
okay let's look at the apiary okay did

1463
01:00:50,109 --> 01:00:46,910
they officially meet do they have coffee

1464
01:00:51,999 --> 01:00:50,119
klatches yes they met as far as I know

1465
01:00:54,549 --> 01:00:52,009
they had meetings and they would meet in

1466
01:00:57,069 --> 01:00:54,559
like you know in hotels apparently they

1467
01:00:59,140 --> 01:00:57,079
met in San Diego at the at the El Cortez

1468
01:01:01,059 --> 01:00:59,150
Hotel or something like that one year

1469
01:01:02,709 --> 01:01:01,069
they would get together and exchange

1470
01:01:03,759 --> 01:01:02,719
information what have you found out

1471
01:01:05,890 --> 01:01:03,769
recently because there's some things

1472
01:01:07,209 --> 01:01:05,900
they don't want to you know send through

1473
01:01:10,900 --> 01:01:07,219
the mail or talk on the phone there was

1474
01:01:12,370 --> 01:01:10,910
no email then so he'd get together and

1475
01:01:15,640 --> 01:01:12,380
say what have you found out what's going

1476
01:01:16,420 --> 01:01:15,650
on and then also there the some of them

1477
01:01:18,219 --> 01:01:16,430
were involved in this

1478
01:01:20,289 --> 01:01:18,229
counterintelligence project so they

1479
01:01:21,849 --> 01:01:20,299
would discuss that as well the

1480
01:01:25,839 --> 01:01:21,859
counterintelligence project was run by

1481
01:01:29,199 --> 01:01:25,849
this guy named Falcon at the time and he

1482
01:01:33,549 --> 01:01:29,209
was using Bill Moore Jamie Shannon Dre

1483
01:01:35,679 --> 01:01:33,559
to some extent as liaisons to the UFO

1484
01:01:38,380 --> 01:01:35,689
community to find out one what they knew

1485
01:01:39,939 --> 01:01:38,390
and what they were concerned about what

1486
01:01:42,339 --> 01:01:39,949
people don't understand is that this guy

1487
01:01:44,589 --> 01:01:42,349
Falcon was an old CIA guy he didn't care

1488
01:01:48,069 --> 01:01:44,599
about UFOs I don't think that was really

1489
01:01:50,709 --> 01:01:48,079
an interest of his what was interesting

1490
01:01:52,209 --> 01:01:50,719
to him was to find out what UFO

1491
01:01:54,150 --> 01:01:52,219
researchers knew and more importantly

1492
01:01:57,880 --> 01:01:54,160
who was talking to the UFO researchers

1493
01:02:01,929 --> 01:01:57,890
because it's it's been proven more than

1494
01:02:03,489 --> 01:02:01,939
once that UFO researchers know a little

1495
01:02:05,049 --> 01:02:03,499
bit about what's going on with military

1496
01:02:05,739 --> 01:02:05,059
projects but may not know that that's

1497
01:02:07,919 --> 01:02:05,749
what they're doing

1498
01:02:10,209 --> 01:02:07,929
they'll sparta spot a weird lighter

1499
01:02:12,370 --> 01:02:10,219
object in the sky somewhere especially

1500
01:02:13,989 --> 01:02:12,380
near a military installation and saying

1501
01:02:15,939 --> 01:02:13,999
hey look at UFO or the UFO US

1502
01:02:18,160 --> 01:02:15,949
government's testing UFOs well what do

1503
01:02:20,019 --> 01:02:18,170
you think in the 1980s what the what the

1504
01:02:22,059 --> 01:02:20,029
Russians would want to know it's like oh

1505
01:02:23,739 --> 01:02:22,069
yeah we've you know they're testing so

1506
01:02:25,059 --> 01:02:23,749
and so that's shaped like this oh yeah

1507
01:02:27,039 --> 01:02:25,069
we've heard about that so that confirms

1508
01:02:30,549 --> 01:02:27,049
to us they've got this sort of aircraft

1509
01:02:31,870 --> 01:02:30,559
or our weapon or whatever it is that's

1510
01:02:34,809 --> 01:02:31,880
what they were concerned about with the

1511
01:02:36,939 --> 01:02:34,819
UFO community but you know what I

1512
01:02:40,349 --> 01:02:36,949
haven't emphasized in the past which I

1513
01:02:41,410 --> 01:02:40,359
didn't think was important was that I

1514
01:02:46,710 --> 01:02:41,420
think

1515
01:02:53,549 --> 01:02:50,730
ancillary what's the word ancillary

1516
01:02:56,410 --> 01:02:53,559
benefits at dealing with UFO researchers

1517
01:02:58,210 --> 01:02:56,420
in that they could find out how much

1518
01:02:59,680 --> 01:02:58,220
they knew about the UFO subject what

1519
01:03:02,319 --> 01:02:59,690
they thought about it and how close they

1520
01:03:04,450 --> 01:03:02,329
were to one military projects and to

1521
01:03:07,780 --> 01:03:04,460
perhaps even really what the UFO subject

1522
01:03:08,920 --> 01:03:07,790
was or what what UFOs were maybe the UFO

1523
01:03:10,150 --> 01:03:08,930
researchers knew more than the

1524
01:03:12,400 --> 01:03:10,160
government and maybe they could get some

1525
01:03:19,780 --> 01:03:12,410
of that information back and then on top

1526
01:03:21,700 --> 01:03:19,790
of that was projects to basically send

1527
01:03:24,940 --> 01:03:21,710
out disinformation and see who gobbled

1528
01:03:29,170 --> 01:03:24,950
it up one of the ways they did was this

1529
01:03:31,870 --> 01:03:29,180
was handing UFO disinfo one to Bill

1530
01:03:33,220 --> 01:03:31,880
Moore who took it you know and tried to

1531
01:03:34,329 --> 01:03:33,230
examine it and see what was going on

1532
01:03:36,430 --> 01:03:34,339
with it we'll get into the

1533
01:03:38,440 --> 01:03:36,440
disinformation and more after bill more

1534
01:03:41,040 --> 01:03:38,450
coming up with Jeanne and Chris you're

1535
01:03:48,620 --> 01:03:41,050
in the para cast

1536
01:03:54,719 --> 01:03:52,019
Ray Perkins a reclusive veteran burned

1537
01:03:56,989 --> 01:03:54,729
out from the Gulf War lives tortured by

1538
01:03:59,370 --> 01:03:56,999
relentless perplexing nightmares

1539
01:04:01,499 --> 01:03:59,380
nightmares of a horrific battle in deep

1540
01:04:03,569 --> 01:04:01,509
space and of a mysterious woman's

1541
01:04:06,719 --> 01:04:03,579
suffering and agony for her devastated

1542
01:04:10,729 --> 01:04:06,729
world a woman not yet born calling

1543
01:04:13,380 --> 01:04:10,739
across centuries to him then a

1544
01:04:16,679 --> 01:04:13,390
coincidence leads him to his destiny his

1545
01:04:19,229 --> 01:04:16,689
chance to alter the universe attack of

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01:06:46,460 --> 01:06:45,180
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1607
01:06:48,170 --> 01:06:46,470
eight hundred five nine seven eight

1608
01:06:54,200 --> 01:06:48,180
eight four three one eight hundred five

1609
01:06:55,670 --> 01:06:54,210
nine seven eight eight four three wait

1610
01:06:58,940 --> 01:06:55,680
how'd you do it so fast

1611
01:07:01,039 --> 01:06:58,950
ASAP what's that mean are you ready to

1612
01:07:03,109 --> 01:07:01,049
get as skinny as possible as soon as

1613
01:07:05,210 --> 01:07:03,119
possible as simple as possible and as

1614
01:07:07,789 --> 01:07:05,220
sexy as possible I'm listening and get

1615
01:07:08,390 --> 01:07:07,799
with the ASAP program it's real and it

1616
01:07:10,730 --> 01:07:08,400
works

1617
01:07:13,490 --> 01:07:10,740
no smooth talk no slick advertising and

1618
01:07:16,519 --> 01:07:13,500
no exaggerated claims of success I got

1619
01:07:18,829 --> 01:07:16,529
it no more welcome to ASAP as slim as

1620
01:07:21,349 --> 01:07:18,839
possible whether you have ten twenty or

1621
01:07:24,170 --> 01:07:21,359
fifty pounds to lose ASAP is your weight

1622
01:07:25,910 --> 01:07:24,180
loss answer ASAP targets the abnormal

1623
01:07:27,799 --> 01:07:25,920
fat reserves and makes them available to

1624
01:07:30,319 --> 01:07:27,809
be burned as fuel and contains no

1625
01:07:32,180 --> 01:07:30,329
caffeine or hormones order ASAP at

1626
01:07:34,490 --> 01:07:32,190
wholesale prices or join the team to

1627
01:07:36,950 --> 01:07:34,500
share the business with others visit GC

1628
01:07:39,099 --> 01:07:36,960
and team.com or call eight seven seven

1629
01:07:42,500 --> 01:07:39,109
eight seven eight four two zero three

1630
01:07:44,329 --> 01:07:42,510
GCM team comm or call eight seven seven

1631
01:07:47,599 --> 01:07:44,339
eight seven eight four two zero three

1632
01:07:51,080 --> 01:07:47,609
lose weight and look great with ASAP as

1633
01:07:55,700 --> 01:07:53,690
we'd like to hear from you if you have a

1634
01:07:59,690 --> 01:07:55,710
comment or question about the para cast

1635
01:08:02,990 --> 01:07:59,700
sent it to news at the para cast com

1636
01:08:05,090 --> 01:08:03,000
that's news at the para cast calm and

1637
01:08:08,270 --> 01:08:05,100
don't forget to visit our famous para

1638
01:08:12,770 --> 01:08:08,280
cast community forums at forum dot the

1639
01:08:15,200 --> 01:08:12,780
para cast comm so what information if

1640
01:08:17,420 --> 01:08:15,210
they give to bill more what did he know

1641
01:08:19,520 --> 01:08:17,430
about the subject when did he know it

1642
01:08:21,470 --> 01:08:19,530
and all that stuff so what you're

1643
01:08:24,829 --> 01:08:21,480
talking about here is he receives from

1644
01:08:26,840 --> 01:08:24,839
his handlers in the aviary information

1645
01:08:28,570 --> 01:08:26,850
to then deliver to people in the UFO

1646
01:08:31,880 --> 01:08:28,580
field yes

1647
01:08:34,760 --> 01:08:31,890
specifically actually one person two

1648
01:08:36,559 --> 01:08:34,770
people actually and once again grant

1649
01:08:38,000 --> 01:08:36,569
Cameron reminded me of this by reading

1650
01:08:41,720 --> 01:08:38,010
some of his posts at his site at

1651
01:08:44,840 --> 01:08:41,730
presidential UFO Lee Graham who you

1652
01:08:47,559 --> 01:08:44,850
weren't worked for Aerojet was eagerly

1653
01:08:50,599 --> 01:08:47,569
taking information from Bill Moore

1654
01:08:51,800 --> 01:08:50,609
thinking that bill Moore was getting

1655
01:08:53,390 --> 01:08:51,810
this information straight from the

1656
01:08:55,940 --> 01:08:53,400
government when she was but then also

1657
01:08:57,980 --> 01:08:55,950
not realizing that it was it was also

1658
01:08:59,090 --> 01:08:57,990
there was a lot of disinformation in

1659
01:09:02,180 --> 01:08:59,100
there with it

1660
01:09:04,250 --> 01:09:02,190
one I think the main reason was to find

1661
01:09:05,420 --> 01:09:04,260
out who was interested what if he hands

1662
01:09:07,460 --> 01:09:05,430
us information out and then they see

1663
01:09:09,710 --> 01:09:07,470
this information and Soviet communicates

1664
01:09:11,000 --> 01:09:09,720
they know that they've got they've got

1665
01:09:13,700 --> 01:09:11,010
somebody that's interested in what's

1666
01:09:16,790 --> 01:09:13,710
going on at Aerojet the stuff they

1667
01:09:19,579 --> 01:09:16,800
handed to Bill more AE the mj-12 papers

1668
01:09:22,220 --> 01:09:19,589
the Aquarius document many many many

1669
01:09:25,280 --> 01:09:22,230
other documents bill Moore took all this

1670
01:09:27,349 --> 01:09:25,290
and tried to figure out if there was any

1671
01:09:29,150 --> 01:09:27,359
truth to them or not most people say

1672
01:09:30,770 --> 01:09:29,160
well Bill Moore just you know put them

1673
01:09:33,500 --> 01:09:30,780
out and said and knew it was

1674
01:09:35,360 --> 01:09:33,510
disinformation and and knowingly spread

1675
01:09:36,680 --> 01:09:35,370
this to the UFO community and and just

1676
01:09:39,380 --> 01:09:36,690
wanted to mess with them or didn't care

1677
01:09:41,990 --> 01:09:39,390
no what I think was happening was that

1678
01:09:43,520 --> 01:09:42,000
he got the disinformation or part part

1679
01:09:44,960 --> 01:09:43,530
disinformation and tried to figure out

1680
01:09:47,059 --> 01:09:44,970
what was real and what wasn't and

1681
01:09:49,760 --> 01:09:47,069
explain why he thought so there's a book

1682
01:09:51,440 --> 01:09:49,770
called the the mj-12 documents if you

1683
01:09:52,940 --> 01:09:51,450
can find it where he actually goes

1684
01:09:54,530 --> 01:09:52,950
through all these documents and says how

1685
01:09:56,990 --> 01:09:54,540
much truth is there in here and

1686
01:09:59,300 --> 01:09:57,000
surprisingly he finds probably a little

1687
01:10:01,550 --> 01:09:59,310
less than half is usable truth and at

1688
01:10:03,560 --> 01:10:01,560
this point he thinks that most of it

1689
01:10:04,610 --> 01:10:03,570
wasn't well that's an interesting point

1690
01:10:06,590 --> 01:10:04,620
of view here the empty

1691
01:10:08,690 --> 01:10:06,600
twelve documents are very very

1692
01:10:11,210 --> 01:10:08,700
controversial you talk to Stanton

1693
01:10:12,770 --> 01:10:11,220
Friedman he says they're real least the

1694
01:10:15,410 --> 01:10:12,780
original ones there are other documents

1695
01:10:16,970 --> 01:10:15,420
that maybe partly or completely fake you

1696
01:10:19,730 --> 01:10:16,980
then go to someone like Kevin Randle he

1697
01:10:22,190 --> 01:10:19,740
says I'm now it's a big fick so looking

1698
01:10:24,710 --> 01:10:22,200
back at the beginning since we broached

1699
01:10:28,850 --> 01:10:24,720
on that horrible subject of mj-12 was

1700
01:10:30,920 --> 01:10:28,860
there really an mj-12 what do you think

1701
01:10:33,320 --> 01:10:30,930
I think there was an mj-12 very

1702
01:10:34,400 --> 01:10:33,330
definitely and at one point I and you

1703
01:10:35,660 --> 01:10:34,410
know people are saying oh well then he

1704
01:10:37,400 --> 01:10:35,670
thinks there's a UFO group and the

1705
01:10:38,840 --> 01:10:37,410
government say no no no no no that

1706
01:10:41,270 --> 01:10:38,850
hasn't that that's not what I'm saying

1707
01:10:43,790 --> 01:10:41,280
at some point early on when I was

1708
01:10:47,080 --> 01:10:43,800
talking to Bill Moore before a writing

1709
01:10:49,280 --> 01:10:47,090
project beta or maybe during it I said

1710
01:10:52,760 --> 01:10:49,290
you know there's never been any proof

1711
01:10:55,960 --> 01:10:52,770
that mj-12 existed as a UFO group at

1712
01:10:59,420 --> 01:10:55,970
least we know that now in in hindsight

1713
01:11:01,400 --> 01:10:59,430
so what do you think it was and I my

1714
01:11:03,410 --> 01:11:01,410
idea was it was something that was very

1715
01:11:06,020 --> 01:11:03,420
heavily buried within the you know

1716
01:11:09,080 --> 01:11:06,030
history of the u.s. u.s. government had

1717
01:11:11,030 --> 01:11:09,090
that designator as mj-12 but really had

1718
01:11:14,410 --> 01:11:11,040
nothing to do with UFOs because if you

1719
01:11:16,970 --> 01:11:14,420
hang the mj-12 documents on that mj-12

1720
01:11:19,310 --> 01:11:16,980
designator you're not gonna really find

1721
01:11:21,530 --> 01:11:19,320
anything it's so obscure and so secret

1722
01:11:23,030 --> 01:11:21,540
that you can put any you know spin you

1723
01:11:25,370 --> 01:11:23,040
want on it nobody's ever really gonna

1724
01:11:26,990 --> 01:11:25,380
find out what it is and what some people

1725
01:11:29,450 --> 01:11:27,000
have said and I think John Alexander

1726
01:11:31,330 --> 01:11:29,460
came out with this at some point said

1727
01:11:33,890 --> 01:11:31,340
that it had something to do with

1728
01:11:35,780 --> 01:11:33,900
succession of presidential power in

1729
01:11:38,480 --> 01:11:35,790
times of national emergency

1730
01:11:40,910 --> 01:11:38,490
that's what mj-12 was but that was used

1731
01:11:43,640 --> 01:11:40,920
as as something to send you know UFO

1732
01:11:45,200 --> 01:11:43,650
researchers and and foreign foreign

1733
01:11:47,240 --> 01:11:45,210
spies and all that off on a complete

1734
01:11:49,100 --> 01:11:47,250
tangent for a long time and I don't

1735
01:11:51,980 --> 01:11:49,110
think it was to cover up the UFO reality

1736
01:11:54,800 --> 01:11:51,990
explain this to me please ok good see

1737
01:11:56,750 --> 01:11:54,810
that's to be pretty strange mj-12 was

1738
01:11:58,940 --> 01:11:56,760
not about roswell or anything else it

1739
01:12:01,250 --> 01:11:58,950
was about presidential succession like

1740
01:12:03,080 --> 01:12:01,260
in case of an assassination what yes

1741
01:12:05,000 --> 01:12:03,090
exactly in case of assassination or

1742
01:12:06,500 --> 01:12:05,010
atomic attack or something like that but

1743
01:12:08,150 --> 01:12:06,510
somebody at some point in their early

1744
01:12:09,800 --> 01:12:08,160
eighties somewhere in the government and

1745
01:12:11,780 --> 01:12:09,810
the intelligence community figured that

1746
01:12:13,880 --> 01:12:11,790
they wanted to hang a bunch of fake

1747
01:12:16,520 --> 01:12:13,890
information on something that would

1748
01:12:17,850 --> 01:12:16,530
never really bear any fruit except for

1749
01:12:20,040 --> 01:12:17,860
what they gave why

1750
01:12:22,169 --> 01:12:20,050
use mj-12 because they you know that

1751
01:12:25,500 --> 01:12:22,179
cutler twining memo if people know about

1752
01:12:27,689 --> 01:12:25,510
refers to a meeting of mj-12 but it

1753
01:12:30,000 --> 01:12:27,699
doesn't say what it is all it says is

1754
01:12:32,370 --> 01:12:30,010
there's there's a meeting and that some

1755
01:12:33,570 --> 01:12:32,380
you know a robert cutler can't attend

1756
01:12:36,030 --> 01:12:33,580
because he's going to be somewhere else

1757
01:12:38,370 --> 01:12:36,040
or something like that so that that

1758
01:12:39,180 --> 01:12:38,380
established that there really was an

1759
01:12:41,700 --> 01:12:39,190
mj-12

1760
01:12:42,930 --> 01:12:41,710
but the only you know the only documents

1761
01:12:44,850 --> 01:12:42,940
has ever said it had anything to do with

1762
01:12:46,500 --> 01:12:44,860
UFOs was that original eisenhower

1763
01:12:48,750 --> 01:12:46,510
briefing document at least at the time

1764
01:12:51,959 --> 01:12:48,760
and that may have been a fake i'm pretty

1765
01:12:54,030 --> 01:12:51,969
sure it was a fake does Bill Moore think

1766
01:12:57,300 --> 01:12:54,040
it's a fake yes he does at this Lee he

1767
01:12:59,430 --> 01:12:57,310
thought that in the around 2000 when I

1768
01:13:01,080 --> 01:12:59,440
was talking to him about a 2000 2001 he

1769
01:13:02,490 --> 01:13:01,090
was pretty sure that it was mostly fake

1770
01:13:04,410 --> 01:13:02,500
and people can say that's very

1771
01:13:06,930 --> 01:13:04,420
convenient because you know he'd already

1772
01:13:09,930 --> 01:13:06,940
fooled everybody as it no I think he I

1773
01:13:12,180 --> 01:13:09,940
think one he really wanted to believe it

1774
01:13:14,850 --> 01:13:12,190
was real to it seemed to make sense to

1775
01:13:17,550 --> 01:13:14,860
him at the time and but that but the

1776
01:13:18,810 --> 01:13:17,560
thing is that as during you know through

1777
01:13:21,180 --> 01:13:18,820
the passage of the years and after he

1778
01:13:21,870 --> 01:13:21,190
find out more about how things didn't

1779
01:13:23,879 --> 01:13:21,880
add up

1780
01:13:25,410 --> 01:13:23,889
the benefit of hindsight he started to

1781
01:13:27,209 --> 01:13:25,420
think that maybe it was mostly just

1782
01:13:30,000 --> 01:13:27,219
information and he knew this going into

1783
01:13:31,950 --> 01:13:30,010
the deal falcon told him i will give you

1784
01:13:33,000 --> 01:13:31,960
a bunch of UFO information in exchange

1785
01:13:34,890 --> 01:13:33,010
for your cooperation

1786
01:13:36,720 --> 01:13:34,900
but not all of its gonna be accurate or

1787
01:13:38,340 --> 01:13:36,730
real and it's your job if you want to

1788
01:13:40,830 --> 01:13:38,350
play this game to figure out what's

1789
01:13:45,780 --> 01:13:40,840
what's real and what isn't oh this gets

1790
01:13:48,450 --> 01:13:45,790
complicated on the other hand i wonder

1791
01:13:49,859 --> 01:13:48,460
then with all this possible evidence and

1792
01:13:53,160 --> 01:13:49,869
I can't think that Stanton Friedman

1793
01:13:55,410 --> 01:13:53,170
doesn't talk to Bill more or hasn't why

1794
01:13:57,570 --> 01:13:55,420
Stanton Friedman maintains to this very

1795
01:14:00,419 --> 01:13:57,580
day that the original mj-12 documents

1796
01:14:03,080 --> 01:14:00,429
were exactly as they were presented I

1797
01:14:05,790 --> 01:14:03,090
think we you know I don't know Stan

1798
01:14:09,000 --> 01:14:05,800
personally really and I think it's

1799
01:14:10,859 --> 01:14:09,010
because his original research he he he

1800
01:14:12,800 --> 01:14:10,869
believes that the the documents held up

1801
01:14:16,020 --> 01:14:12,810
and he hasn't really in the face of

1802
01:14:18,240 --> 01:14:16,030
disconfirming evidence and you know

1803
01:14:21,390 --> 01:14:18,250
other people doing a little bit further

1804
01:14:23,129 --> 01:14:21,400
research and casting doubt on it I don't

1805
01:14:26,040 --> 01:14:23,139
think he's changed his opinion because

1806
01:14:28,320 --> 01:14:26,050
he's I think because he's so convinced

1807
01:14:30,660 --> 01:14:28,330
himself so much by his own research that

1808
01:14:31,180 --> 01:14:30,670
he's gotten tunnel vision about it I do

1809
01:14:33,400 --> 01:14:31,190
not

1810
01:14:35,320 --> 01:14:33,410
I mean I think almost everybody except

1811
01:14:38,110 --> 01:14:35,330
Stan Friedman thinks they were fake at

1812
01:14:40,420 --> 01:14:38,120
this point okay so all this stuff being

1813
01:14:43,600 --> 01:14:40,430
given the bill more and this is where

1814
01:14:46,450 --> 01:14:43,610
Paul bennewitz gets involved yeah he was

1815
01:14:48,100 --> 01:14:46,460
they were worried about Paul bennewitz

1816
01:14:50,650 --> 01:14:48,110
and Paul bennewitz had actually written

1817
01:14:53,380 --> 01:14:50,660
to the aerial phenomena research

1818
01:14:55,180 --> 01:14:53,390
organization about some of his concerns

1819
01:14:57,280 --> 01:14:55,190
about what he was seeing around his home

1820
01:15:00,130 --> 01:14:57,290
in Albuquerque and they knew that bill

1821
01:15:03,670 --> 01:15:00,140
Moore was one of the board members of a

1822
01:15:05,979 --> 01:15:03,680
PR oh and basically sent out feelers to

1823
01:15:08,890 --> 01:15:05,989
him to see if he was interested in the

1824
01:15:10,930 --> 01:15:08,900
form of the weitzel letter which we can

1825
01:15:13,660 --> 01:15:10,940
talk about if you want sure go ahead

1826
01:15:16,900 --> 01:15:13,670
it was a letter sent to various UFO

1827
01:15:21,070 --> 01:15:16,910
organizations to to get people

1828
01:15:22,209 --> 01:15:21,080
interested in basically as bait to see

1829
01:15:24,100 --> 01:15:22,219
if there was anybody in the UFO

1830
01:15:25,870 --> 01:15:24,110
community interested in the letter

1831
01:15:28,240 --> 01:15:25,880
apparently was written by Richard Doty

1832
01:15:30,070 --> 01:15:28,250
based on an actual incident that had

1833
01:15:31,840 --> 01:15:30,080
happened were somebody on maneuvers and

1834
01:15:35,050 --> 01:15:31,850
I think it was in New Mexico or maybe it

1835
01:15:36,729 --> 01:15:35,060
was the southeast somewhere somebody on

1836
01:15:40,360 --> 01:15:36,739
maneuvers with the Air Force had seen a

1837
01:15:43,180 --> 01:15:40,370
strange craft either flying by or landed

1838
01:15:46,479 --> 01:15:43,190
or both reported it it's his superiors

1839
01:15:48,640 --> 01:15:46,489
and there was a report filed what Doty

1840
01:15:49,630 --> 01:15:48,650
did was he took that report changed it

1841
01:15:52,000 --> 01:15:49,640
to make it sound a little bit more

1842
01:15:54,930 --> 01:15:52,010
interesting and exciting and then had

1843
01:15:57,910 --> 01:15:54,940
that sent out to you know MUFON a PR Oh

1844
01:16:00,310 --> 01:15:57,920
Center for UFO studies various other

1845
01:16:03,130 --> 01:16:00,320
groups to see who would respond to it

1846
01:16:05,320 --> 01:16:03,140
what Bill Moore did was he he went to

1847
01:16:06,610 --> 01:16:05,330
the Air Force found the guy actually the

1848
01:16:09,100 --> 01:16:06,620
guy in the mentioned in the letter

1849
01:16:10,780 --> 01:16:09,110
Weitzel Craig weitzel and asked him if

1850
01:16:12,640 --> 01:16:10,790
he had sent you know asked him about his

1851
01:16:13,959 --> 01:16:12,650
experience what weitzel said was I

1852
01:16:15,400 --> 01:16:13,969
didn't send that letter and be sitting

1853
01:16:18,100 --> 01:16:15,410
besides that's not what happened

1854
01:16:18,610 --> 01:16:18,110
oh boy this is getting crazier and

1855
01:16:21,490 --> 01:16:18,620
crazier

1856
01:16:24,070 --> 01:16:21,500
yeah figure out what might have really

1857
01:16:26,350 --> 01:16:24,080
happened here and how this caused a lot

1858
01:16:28,000 --> 01:16:26,360
of consternation in different places we

1859
01:16:31,440 --> 01:16:28,010
have Greg Bishop joining gene and Chris

1860
01:16:37,860 --> 01:16:31,450
you're in the cast

1861
01:16:42,280 --> 01:16:41,229
are you tired of searching for great

1862
01:16:46,209 --> 01:16:42,290
talk-radio

1863
01:16:50,560 --> 01:16:46,219
more important search no more we are the

1864
01:16:52,840 --> 01:16:50,570
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1865
01:16:55,870 --> 01:16:52,850
the image manipulation tool for the rest

1866
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1867
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1868
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1869
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pillow and I've been solving tax debt

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of mortgage or other debt forgiveness

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the vast majority of the time I can show

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you how to completely erase it so you

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pay no taxes on what the IRS will

1900
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consider to be taxable income call us

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for a free consultation to discuss the

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many possibilities call 1-800 3 for no

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pilla has been protecting taxpayers from

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the IRS for three decades and he can

1907
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1911
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1914
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1915
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1916
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1918
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1919
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1920
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1921
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1922
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hi this is Ted Anderson have you ever

1923
01:19:24,430 --> 01:19:22,790
wondered why banks stockbrokers

1924
01:19:26,260 --> 01:19:24,440
investment advisors won't talk about

1925
01:19:28,150 --> 01:19:26,270
gold IRAs they've been available since

1926
01:19:29,830 --> 01:19:28,160
nineteen eighty six yet the financial

1927
01:19:31,570 --> 01:19:29,840
industry won't recognize the value of

1928
01:19:33,550 --> 01:19:31,580
gold for your attire mint gold has

1929
01:19:35,500 --> 01:19:33,560
outperformed paper investments yet no

1930
01:19:38,410 --> 01:19:35,510
word about IRAs if you would like to

1931
01:19:41,170 --> 01:19:38,420
have gold for your retirement call 866

1932
01:20:05,560 --> 01:19:41,180
to 237 don't get left behind by rising

1933
01:20:08,950 --> 01:20:07,810
Steve Forbes Margaret Thatcher and Boris

1934
01:20:10,600 --> 01:20:08,960
Yeltsin to name but a few

1935
01:20:12,190 --> 01:20:10,610
and his volume of work set out his

1936
01:20:14,440 --> 01:20:12,200
groundbreaking financial newsletter

1937
01:20:16,630 --> 01:20:14,450
strategic investment was so far ahead of

1938
01:20:18,340 --> 01:20:16,640
its time it helped transform not just

1939
01:20:20,080 --> 01:20:18,350
the fates and fortunes of thousands of

1940
01:20:22,210 --> 01:20:20,090
investors but also the fates and

1941
01:20:24,370 --> 01:20:22,220
fortunes of entire nations for the first

1942
01:20:26,350 --> 01:20:24,380
time in 17 years he's back once again

1943
01:20:28,690 --> 01:20:26,360
with his first controversial video

1944
01:20:30,820 --> 01:20:28,700
presentation go to fall of capitalism

1945
01:20:32,470 --> 01:20:30,830
calm to watch him reveal a landmark

1946
01:20:34,450 --> 01:20:32,480
development which he believes will set

1947
01:20:36,310 --> 01:20:34,460
off the most violent economic reversal

1948
01:20:38,050 --> 01:20:36,320
in history one that carries the power to

1949
01:20:40,510 --> 01:20:38,060
bring down the entire capitalist system

1950
01:20:42,220 --> 01:20:40,520
go to fall of capitalism calm to watch

1951
01:20:44,080 --> 01:20:42,230
his controversial video before the

1952
01:21:02,640 --> 01:20:44,090
powers that be wipe it from the internet

1953
01:21:08,080 --> 01:21:05,500
with gene and Chris on the power cast we

1954
01:21:10,660 --> 01:21:08,090
have Greg Bishop who has written several

1955
01:21:13,950 --> 01:21:10,670
fascinating books about UFOs and is

1956
01:21:16,330 --> 01:21:13,960
studying the antics of the aviary

1957
01:21:18,250 --> 01:21:16,340
involving UFO researcher bill Moore he

1958
01:21:19,720 --> 01:21:18,260
was one of the co-authors with Charles

1959
01:21:22,510 --> 01:21:19,730
Berlitz of the original book on the

1960
01:21:24,130 --> 01:21:22,520
Roswell incident so a pioneer UFO

1961
01:21:26,470 --> 01:21:24,140
researcher who brought Roswell to the

1962
01:21:31,030 --> 01:21:26,480
present day and now we're talking about

1963
01:21:34,210 --> 01:21:31,040
a shall we say massaged report of a UFO

1964
01:21:36,730 --> 01:21:34,220
case yeah maybe I better explaining sort

1965
01:21:39,250 --> 01:21:36,740
of try explain in a short way is that

1966
01:21:40,570 --> 01:21:39,260
what was going on here what happened was

1967
01:21:43,180 --> 01:21:40,580
I think somebody in the government

1968
01:21:45,220 --> 01:21:43,190
namely this Falcon character are

1969
01:21:47,380 --> 01:21:45,230
associated with the government wanted to

1970
01:21:50,200 --> 01:21:47,390
use the UFO community for

1971
01:21:52,330 --> 01:21:50,210
counterintelligence operation so they

1972
01:21:54,730 --> 01:21:52,340
were trying to find out who might be

1973
01:21:56,860 --> 01:21:54,740
receptive to such a thing and also more

1974
01:21:58,660 --> 01:21:56,870
importantly who wouldn't just take

1975
01:22:00,340 --> 01:21:58,670
everything for granted and just spit it

1976
01:22:03,310 --> 01:22:00,350
right back out because almost anybody

1977
01:22:04,480 --> 01:22:03,320
will do that especially UFO researchers

1978
01:22:06,280 --> 01:22:04,490
if somebody from the government tells

1979
01:22:08,320 --> 01:22:06,290
them that a secret they spit it right

1980
01:22:09,880 --> 01:22:08,330
back out well I'm special and they're

1981
01:22:11,320 --> 01:22:09,890
telling me something so what they wanted

1982
01:22:14,440 --> 01:22:11,330
to find out was somebody that would not

1983
01:22:16,750 --> 01:22:14,450
do that would do the background research

1984
01:22:18,910 --> 01:22:16,760
and be a little bit circumspect about it

1985
01:22:19,150 --> 01:22:18,920
so they sent this fake letter out to see

1986
01:22:21,460 --> 01:22:19,160
what

1987
01:22:24,580 --> 01:22:21,470
reaction was and bill Moore's reaction

1988
01:22:26,710 --> 01:22:24,590
was to call up the Air Force find this

1989
01:22:29,050 --> 01:22:26,720
guy that had supposedly sent this letter

1990
01:22:31,060 --> 01:22:29,060
and questioned him about it and he found

1991
01:22:32,830 --> 01:22:31,070
out the guy you know had had the

1992
01:22:34,630 --> 01:22:32,840
experience but he never sent that letter

1993
01:22:38,260 --> 01:22:34,640
and the things that were in the letter

1994
01:22:40,720 --> 01:22:38,270
were you know greatly embellished so he

1995
01:22:43,450 --> 01:22:40,730
went to the you know the head of a PR Oh

1996
01:22:45,070 --> 01:22:43,460
heads of a PR L Jim and Cora Lorenz and

1997
01:22:47,380 --> 01:22:45,080
and said well this letters fake I don't

1998
01:22:49,720 --> 01:22:47,390
know why they sent it and that's the end

1999
01:22:51,340 --> 01:22:49,730
of it but he was apparently according to

2000
01:22:54,130 --> 01:22:51,350
Bill he was the only one that actually

2001
01:22:55,810 --> 01:22:54,140
bothered to check into it so he was on

2002
01:22:58,000 --> 01:22:55,820
the government's radar at that point and

2003
01:22:59,950 --> 01:22:58,010
very soon after that they approached him

2004
01:23:02,860 --> 01:22:59,960
and said would you be interested in

2005
01:23:04,960 --> 01:23:02,870
helping us if we in exchange give you

2006
01:23:06,880 --> 01:23:04,970
some UFO information from the government

2007
01:23:08,740 --> 01:23:06,890
and like I said they did warn him that

2008
01:23:10,690 --> 01:23:08,750
it would not all be real and he would

2009
01:23:13,150 --> 01:23:10,700
have to figure it out and he decided to

2010
01:23:15,280 --> 01:23:13,160
play that game and that's that's where

2011
01:23:17,290 --> 01:23:15,290
all this other stuff and that's history

2012
01:23:19,600 --> 01:23:17,300
as we know it dancing with the devil in

2013
01:23:22,300 --> 01:23:19,610
the pale moonlight well I guess so I

2014
01:23:23,650 --> 01:23:22,310
mean it's you ask a lot of people and in

2015
01:23:25,750 --> 01:23:23,660
hindsight they'd never would have done

2016
01:23:27,490 --> 01:23:25,760
something like that I think a lot of

2017
01:23:28,930 --> 01:23:27,500
people if they were offered that's like

2018
01:23:30,640 --> 01:23:28,940
we're gonna give you government secrets

2019
01:23:32,440 --> 01:23:30,650
that nobody else has ever seen they

2020
01:23:33,820 --> 01:23:32,450
might not all be true but you know

2021
01:23:36,040 --> 01:23:33,830
you're gonna have access to them and

2022
01:23:37,930 --> 01:23:36,050
nobody else will and you can you know do

2023
01:23:39,490 --> 01:23:37,940
what you want with them in exchange all

2024
01:23:41,170 --> 01:23:39,500
you have to do is tell us what UFO

2025
01:23:42,490 --> 01:23:41,180
people are thinking and what they're

2026
01:23:44,350 --> 01:23:42,500
talking about because there was no

2027
01:23:47,500 --> 01:23:44,360
internet or anything then and bill was a

2028
01:23:49,810 --> 01:23:47,510
very respected UFO researcher and knew

2029
01:23:51,460 --> 01:23:49,820
lots of people so it was a good way for

2030
01:23:53,020 --> 01:23:51,470
them to find out what UFO people knew

2031
01:23:55,510 --> 01:23:53,030
what they were talking about and had if

2032
01:23:58,600 --> 01:23:55,520
it had any bearing on defense projects

2033
01:24:01,780 --> 01:23:58,610
especially if you gettin paid he was not

2034
01:24:04,180 --> 01:24:01,790
paid as far as I know I don't know

2035
01:24:05,830 --> 01:24:04,190
Samsonite's with lots of hundred you

2036
01:24:06,630 --> 01:24:05,840
know old sort of wrinkly hundred-dollar

2037
01:24:09,190 --> 01:24:06,640
bills

2038
01:24:12,340 --> 01:24:09,200
people watch too many dear movies and

2039
01:24:14,590 --> 01:24:12,350
read too many stupid spy no it was I

2040
01:24:16,360 --> 01:24:14,600
know the feeling Greg I've been an

2041
01:24:18,760 --> 01:24:16,370
unpaid asset for the intelligence

2042
01:24:21,160 --> 01:24:18,770
community for years man I you know

2043
01:24:23,710 --> 01:24:21,170
whether whether I want to be or not and

2044
01:24:25,750 --> 01:24:23,720
I don't but a facts are facts my

2045
01:24:27,130 --> 01:24:25,760
database is available for everybody so

2046
01:24:28,990 --> 01:24:27,140
you think you're helping intelligence

2047
01:24:30,010 --> 01:24:29,000
seriously Chris have been for twenty

2048
01:24:32,620 --> 01:24:30,020
years so you kiddin

2049
01:24:34,149 --> 01:24:32,630
okay just the nature of your work

2050
01:24:36,129 --> 01:24:34,159
the intelligence community ever called

2051
01:24:39,459 --> 01:24:36,139
you up and said Chris we got a question

2052
01:24:42,640 --> 01:24:39,469
or two I got a visit by a man in beige

2053
01:24:44,830 --> 01:24:42,650
the other type of MIB that doesn't get

2054
01:24:49,330 --> 01:24:44,840
talked about much but the invisibility

2055
01:24:51,070 --> 01:24:49,340
guy no no actually that wasn't it was

2056
01:24:54,160 --> 01:24:51,080
somebody else from the Institute of

2057
01:24:57,340 --> 01:24:54,170
social architecture I just love that K

2058
01:24:59,110 --> 01:24:57,350
Street you know you know think-tank or

2059
01:25:00,610 --> 01:24:59,120
whatever the heck it was a lobbyist or

2060
01:25:05,020 --> 01:25:00,620
something like that well he tried

2061
01:25:06,640 --> 01:25:05,030
lobbying me and I and I said hey you

2062
01:25:08,560 --> 01:25:06,650
didn't walk in the door with a big

2063
01:25:10,149 --> 01:25:08,570
Samsonite filled with a bunch of old

2064
01:25:12,790 --> 01:25:10,159
hundred-dollar bills I you're not

2065
01:25:15,399 --> 01:25:12,800
offering me a you know a major record

2066
01:25:17,680 --> 01:25:15,409
deal for my band or a major publishing

2067
01:25:20,080 --> 01:25:17,690
deal for my next book so why are you

2068
01:25:22,479 --> 01:25:20,090
asking me whether I want to or whether I

2069
01:25:24,430 --> 01:25:22,489
should question my motivations to get

2070
01:25:27,399 --> 01:25:24,440
into things that quote most people don't

2071
01:25:29,229 --> 01:25:27,409
have a need to know unquote and I said

2072
01:25:31,209 --> 01:25:29,239
hey if you'd walked in with the you know

2073
01:25:33,550 --> 01:25:31,219
with something you know maybe I'd have

2074
01:25:35,620 --> 01:25:33,560
too much fun and have other things to do

2075
01:25:39,129 --> 01:25:35,630
besides digging into areas that you guys

2076
01:25:41,020 --> 01:25:39,139
are a little nervous about okay so what

2077
01:25:42,790 --> 01:25:41,030
did free work out of you is basically

2078
01:25:44,560 --> 01:25:42,800
what it is which is what you're already

2079
01:25:47,080 --> 01:25:44,570
giving them by publishing your books and

2080
01:25:49,419 --> 01:25:47,090
doing your yeah I mean my data is open

2081
01:25:52,330 --> 01:25:49,429
for everybody if the CIA is interested

2082
01:25:54,939 --> 01:25:52,340
if you know some you know other foreign

2083
01:25:56,320 --> 01:25:54,949
intelligence UFO group is interested or

2084
01:25:59,649 --> 01:25:56,330
whether it's just you know your average

2085
01:26:02,470 --> 01:25:59,659
buff or or a group hey great it's there

2086
01:26:05,200 --> 01:26:02,480
for you I work my tail off getting it

2087
01:26:07,360 --> 01:26:05,210
it's open and available to anybody now

2088
01:26:09,729 --> 01:26:07,370
my concern over what was done here and

2089
01:26:11,590 --> 01:26:09,739
Byway listeners we're going to have more

2090
01:26:13,390 --> 01:26:11,600
of your questions in a little while my

2091
01:26:15,399 --> 01:26:13,400
concern in terms of Paul bennewitz is

2092
01:26:17,800 --> 01:26:15,409
the fact that they made him practically

2093
01:26:19,990 --> 01:26:17,810
go crazy because of the things they

2094
01:26:22,270 --> 01:26:20,000
pulled was that because of what Bill

2095
01:26:24,910 --> 01:26:22,280
Moore did or did Dodi and all the rest

2096
01:26:28,240 --> 01:26:24,920
get involved that's another I think

2097
01:26:30,070 --> 01:26:28,250
people place emphasis in areas where

2098
01:26:32,530 --> 01:26:30,080
that makes them feel worse or better or

2099
01:26:34,629 --> 01:26:32,540
whatever the story with with Paul

2100
01:26:36,399 --> 01:26:34,639
bennewitz and the fact that he did

2101
01:26:38,860 --> 01:26:36,409
basically end up in a mental institution

2102
01:26:44,050 --> 01:26:38,870
his family put him there for his for his

2103
01:26:46,270 --> 01:26:44,060
health was that he first when he when he

2104
01:26:46,540 --> 01:26:46,280
contacted the Air Force and said I think

2105
01:26:47,830 --> 01:26:46,550
they

2106
01:26:51,729 --> 01:26:47,840
something weird going on here that you

2107
01:26:54,580 --> 01:26:51,739
ought to know about he was already well

2108
01:26:58,120 --> 01:26:54,590
well on the way to being out of control

2109
01:27:00,280 --> 01:26:58,130
of his you know his faculties because

2110
01:27:02,830 --> 01:27:00,290
and and this was pointed out to me by

2111
01:27:04,180 --> 01:27:02,840
and I you know I'd reported this in

2112
01:27:05,189 --> 01:27:04,190
project beta but I never really thought

2113
01:27:10,540 --> 01:27:05,199
about it

2114
01:27:12,549 --> 01:27:10,550
in 1979 or eighty I believe when when

2115
01:27:14,049 --> 01:27:12,559
bennewitz was was seeing these things or

2116
01:27:15,760 --> 01:27:14,059
first started seeing these things over

2117
01:27:17,560 --> 01:27:15,770
the over the Air Force Base which were

2118
01:27:19,120 --> 01:27:17,570
probably some sort of secret project

2119
01:27:21,280 --> 01:27:19,130
right Kirtland Air Force Base in

2120
01:27:23,649 --> 01:27:21,290
Albuquerque he was seeing objects over

2121
01:27:25,089 --> 01:27:23,659
the Manzano mountains in the coyote

2122
01:27:27,549 --> 01:27:25,099
Canyon area

2123
01:27:30,879 --> 01:27:27,559
strangely moving lighted objects which

2124
01:27:33,040 --> 01:27:30,889
were obviously being tested there but he

2125
01:27:34,629 --> 01:27:33,050
he thought there were UFOs from other

2126
01:27:38,470 --> 01:27:34,639
planets and that there was some sort of

2127
01:27:42,669 --> 01:27:38,480
invasion the thing was in 1979 or early

2128
01:27:44,640 --> 01:27:42,679
eighty this woman named Myrna Hansen had

2129
01:27:47,229 --> 01:27:44,650
had some sort of an abduction abduction

2130
01:27:49,359 --> 01:27:47,239
experience and she was brought to the

2131
01:27:51,609 --> 01:27:49,369
attention of Paul bennewitz actually by

2132
01:27:53,879 --> 01:27:51,619
Gabe Valdez of all people if people know

2133
01:27:56,140 --> 01:27:53,889
who he is

2134
01:27:58,660 --> 01:27:56,150
he what she was brought to Paul

2135
01:28:02,890 --> 01:27:58,670
bennewitz his house and he's he called

2136
01:28:05,109 --> 01:28:02,900
Leo sprinkle who people may know know

2137
01:28:08,169 --> 01:28:05,119
about one of very early abduction

2138
01:28:10,479 --> 01:28:08,179
researchers one of the first yeah was

2139
01:28:12,910 --> 01:28:10,489
flown to Albuquerque by Paul bennewitz

2140
01:28:14,589 --> 01:28:12,920
to do some regression hypnosis with this

2141
01:28:17,049 --> 01:28:14,599
woman to find out what had happened to

2142
01:28:20,410 --> 01:28:17,059
her and he said that you know they did

2143
01:28:25,089 --> 01:28:20,420
one session over like a day or so and he

2144
01:28:26,589 --> 01:28:25,099
flew back to Wyoming and then bennewitz

2145
01:28:28,899 --> 01:28:26,599
asked him to come out a second time I

2146
01:28:31,270 --> 01:28:28,909
think about a month later by the way

2147
01:28:34,990 --> 01:28:31,280
parenthetically if you check our episode

2148
01:28:37,629 --> 01:28:35,000
for January 18 2009 we feature dr.

2149
01:28:39,760 --> 01:28:37,639
sprinkle go ahead so when he came back

2150
01:28:41,709 --> 01:28:39,770
out that second time not a month later

2151
01:28:44,169 --> 01:28:41,719
and before bennewitz had contacted the

2152
01:28:46,089 --> 01:28:44,179
air force sprinkle told me and he would

2153
01:28:48,189 --> 01:28:46,099
tell you if you asked him that bennewitz

2154
01:28:50,109 --> 01:28:48,199
came to the door with a shotgun in a

2155
01:28:51,760 --> 01:28:50,119
pistol in a holster and said get in here

2156
01:28:53,979 --> 01:28:51,770
the aliens are coming and we don't want

2157
01:28:56,830 --> 01:28:53,989
them to get to us this was before he

2158
01:28:58,780 --> 01:28:56,840
even contacted the airforce so a

2159
01:29:00,370 --> 01:28:58,790
suggestion I get here is that he was

2160
01:29:02,290 --> 01:29:00,380
cracking up

2161
01:29:04,840 --> 01:29:02,300
and would have cracked up if it wasn't

2162
01:29:06,640 --> 01:29:04,850
for the influence of these pathways I

2163
01:29:08,950 --> 01:29:06,650
would have cracked up yeah he still

2164
01:29:10,660 --> 01:29:08,960
would have I'm not saying that the Air

2165
01:29:13,030 --> 01:29:10,670
Force the other intelligence agencies

2166
01:29:15,400 --> 01:29:13,040
are not complicit in it because they

2167
01:29:18,310 --> 01:29:15,410
were they basically encouraged him

2168
01:29:22,060 --> 01:29:18,320
because it kept him away from secret

2169
01:29:23,470 --> 01:29:22,070
projects and also I guess people that

2170
01:29:25,990 --> 01:29:23,480
might have been watching him that were

2171
01:29:27,820 --> 01:29:26,000
not friendly the United States but yeah

2172
01:29:29,710 --> 01:29:27,830
basically they sat by and watched it

2173
01:29:31,660 --> 01:29:29,720
happen and didn't really care if he he

2174
01:29:33,340 --> 01:29:31,670
went you know if he went further around

2175
01:29:35,380 --> 01:29:33,350
the bend and that's wrong and it's it's

2176
01:29:37,690 --> 01:29:35,390
reprehensible and it should be but the

2177
01:29:39,550 --> 01:29:37,700
the but the idea that the Air Force and

2178
01:29:41,890 --> 01:29:39,560
the intelligence community drove Paul

2179
01:29:44,560 --> 01:29:41,900
bennewitz crazy from being a completely

2180
01:29:47,110 --> 01:29:44,570
normal you know well-balanced person to

2181
01:29:51,100 --> 01:29:47,120
being dangerous you know dangerous to

2182
01:29:53,590 --> 01:29:51,110
himself is is is not the right idea well

2183
01:29:55,870 --> 01:29:53,600
great good there are rumors that DoDEA

2184
01:29:58,000 --> 01:29:55,880
knows those guys would go in and

2185
01:30:00,610 --> 01:29:58,010
rearrange his furniture and stuff yeah

2186
01:30:04,750 --> 01:30:00,620
Don Donecker asked me about that and I

2187
01:30:07,360 --> 01:30:04,760
said I told Don as far as I remember and

2188
01:30:09,990 --> 01:30:07,370
I this may be in the book I can't

2189
01:30:12,670 --> 01:30:10,000
remember it cuz there's so much in there

2190
01:30:14,260 --> 01:30:12,680
bennewitz at first knew this was

2191
01:30:16,750 --> 01:30:14,270
happening and it kind of freaked him out

2192
01:30:19,360 --> 01:30:16,760
and then later realized or it was told

2193
01:30:20,890 --> 01:30:19,370
or something that the government was

2194
01:30:22,090 --> 01:30:20,900
doing this and it was because he thought

2195
01:30:24,040 --> 01:30:22,100
he was cooperating with the government

2196
01:30:26,230 --> 01:30:24,050
completely and was involved in some sort

2197
01:30:28,360 --> 01:30:26,240
of secret program with them yeah well

2198
01:30:30,370 --> 01:30:28,370
again to what all this means we get into

2199
01:30:32,290 --> 01:30:30,380
what this means we guy do the break with

2200
01:30:38,250 --> 01:30:32,300
Greg Bishop with gene and Chris you're

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01:30:45,040 --> 01:30:41,859
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[Music]

2298
01:35:03,730 --> 01:34:58,370
seventy author you ever miss reading and

2299
01:35:05,460 --> 01:35:03,740
listening to the paragraph with Gina and

2300
01:35:08,170 --> 01:35:05,470
Chris we're talking to Greg Bishop

2301
01:35:10,300 --> 01:35:08,180
project beta was the book that you

2302
01:35:13,270 --> 01:35:10,310
talked about a lot of this stuff when

2303
01:35:15,160 --> 01:35:13,280
did I come out by the way 2005 okay so

2304
01:35:16,810 --> 01:35:15,170
today would you do a new edition with

2305
01:35:19,540 --> 01:35:16,820
more information as a result of what

2306
01:35:23,170 --> 01:35:19,550
we've got to present I believe that and

2307
01:35:24,970 --> 01:35:23,180
and I believe that the Gabe Valdez told

2308
01:35:26,650 --> 01:35:24,980
me this which who know nobody by any

2309
01:35:29,770 --> 01:35:26,660
stretch the imagination would think was

2310
01:35:31,540 --> 01:35:29,780
a US government person he told me that

2311
01:35:33,460 --> 01:35:31,550
bennewitz at some point knew that the

2312
01:35:35,050 --> 01:35:33,470
government was doing this rearranging

2313
01:35:36,760 --> 01:35:35,060
his furniture and all that and that he

2314
01:35:39,550 --> 01:35:36,770
kind of accepted it as part of his quote

2315
01:35:42,490 --> 01:35:39,560
unquote spy work something didn't think

2316
01:35:43,900 --> 01:35:42,500
of that being unusual no not after a why

2317
01:35:45,730 --> 01:35:43,910
I mean there were so many other weird

2318
01:35:47,440 --> 01:35:45,740
things going on with him that I think

2319
01:35:49,120 --> 01:35:47,450
that was a very minor thing the fact

2320
01:35:51,310 --> 01:35:49,130
that he was sending out signals and

2321
01:35:52,750 --> 01:35:51,320
getting things back he said that was

2322
01:35:54,490 --> 01:35:52,760
from that were from the aliens and other

2323
01:35:56,260 --> 01:35:54,500
people have seen this too they they saw

2324
01:35:58,330 --> 01:35:56,270
the messages coming in the answers he

2325
01:36:00,910 --> 01:35:58,340
was getting how is he sending these

2326
01:36:02,920 --> 01:36:00,920
messages he had a radio set up that he

2327
01:36:04,540 --> 01:36:02,930
had built what people people that may

2328
01:36:06,400 --> 01:36:04,550
not realize if he's a real he was an

2329
01:36:08,560 --> 01:36:06,410
electronics whiz he had an electronics

2330
01:36:11,980 --> 01:36:08,570
company that still exists so he built

2331
01:36:14,530 --> 01:36:11,990
his own radio you know listening and and

2332
01:36:18,390 --> 01:36:14,540
sending device or got something pre-made

2333
01:36:21,400 --> 01:36:18,400
and adapted it to his own uses and

2334
01:36:23,530 --> 01:36:21,410
thought and said he was communicating

2335
01:36:25,840 --> 01:36:23,540
with some alien race that was giving him

2336
01:36:27,670 --> 01:36:25,850
some sort of information and there there

2337
01:36:29,920 --> 01:36:27,680
was intelligent communication between

2338
01:36:31,630 --> 01:36:29,930
him and whatever this was what I think

2339
01:36:33,670 --> 01:36:31,640
it was was just somebody from the NSA or

2340
01:36:34,960 --> 01:36:33,680
something and I was told this sitting

2341
01:36:36,550 --> 01:36:34,970
across the street with it with a

2342
01:36:38,410 --> 01:36:36,560
transmitter and just telling him what he

2343
01:36:39,970 --> 01:36:38,420
wanted to hear they were having fun at

2344
01:36:42,700 --> 01:36:39,980
his expense now I have a question here

2345
01:36:45,160 --> 01:36:42,710
to which I just is implicit in a lot of

2346
01:36:47,530 --> 01:36:45,170
what you said and that is things that

2347
01:36:49,630 --> 01:36:47,540
benefit saw may have been government

2348
01:36:52,650 --> 01:36:49,640
secret weapons is a lot of this all

2349
01:36:55,690 --> 01:36:52,660
about protecting government inventions a

2350
01:36:58,300 --> 01:36:55,700
lot of what a lot of all this craziness

2351
01:37:01,030 --> 01:36:58,310
going on that we're talking about in the

2352
01:37:03,130 --> 01:37:01,040
show yet I think a lot of it is people

2353
01:37:05,470 --> 01:37:03,140
make the mistake that it that I think

2354
01:37:07,060 --> 01:37:05,480
and people that you know think along the

2355
01:37:09,069 --> 01:37:07,070
same lines are saying that UFOs are

2356
01:37:10,629 --> 01:37:09,079
all caused by the government I'm not

2357
01:37:12,669 --> 01:37:10,639
saying that at all I'm saying we've got

2358
01:37:16,839 --> 01:37:12,679
to eliminate these things that the that

2359
01:37:17,530 --> 01:37:16,849
are secret projects as not part of the

2360
01:37:20,470 --> 01:37:17,540
core

2361
01:37:23,560 --> 01:37:20,480
you know phenomena of UFOs and the more

2362
01:37:25,629 --> 01:37:23,570
that people know one what that is into

2363
01:37:27,580 --> 01:37:25,639
the disinformation involved around the

2364
01:37:32,140 --> 01:37:27,590
more maybe they can filter out the junk

2365
01:37:36,490 --> 01:37:32,150
I hope okay so the bandwidth story is he

2366
01:37:39,819 --> 01:37:36,500
was institutionalized after about six or

2367
01:37:41,800 --> 01:37:39,829
seven years of this back and forth of

2368
01:37:45,490 --> 01:37:41,810
the government and him having you know

2369
01:37:47,169 --> 01:37:45,500
ideas about underground bases and all

2370
01:37:51,490 --> 01:37:47,179
this encouraged by the government

2371
01:37:54,609 --> 01:37:51,500
actually his family realized that he was

2372
01:37:56,290 --> 01:37:54,619
you know his health was in danger so

2373
01:37:58,720 --> 01:37:56,300
they actually had him put in a mental

2374
01:38:00,850 --> 01:37:58,730
health facility for about a month month

2375
01:38:02,709 --> 01:38:00,860
and a half something like that after he

2376
01:38:04,629 --> 01:38:02,719
came out he he was you know kind of

2377
01:38:06,910 --> 01:38:04,639
still doing it but it was much

2378
01:38:10,209 --> 01:38:06,920
diminished from what it was and at that

2379
01:38:12,760 --> 01:38:10,219
point I think that the intelligence

2380
01:38:14,169 --> 01:38:12,770
community was not really that interested

2381
01:38:15,640 --> 01:38:14,179
in what he was doing anymore and that

2382
01:38:17,319 --> 01:38:15,650
that thing had run its course they

2383
01:38:20,319 --> 01:38:17,329
basically left him alone as far as I

2384
01:38:22,270 --> 01:38:20,329
know okay what other activities whether

2385
01:38:24,790 --> 01:38:22,280
one of the craziness did these

2386
01:38:28,209 --> 01:38:24,800
intelligence people do with Bill Moore

2387
01:38:30,550 --> 01:38:28,219
as the focal point well the one thing

2388
01:38:32,530 --> 01:38:30,560
that bill did admit to and told me about

2389
01:38:37,149 --> 01:38:32,540
and I think announced in his speech in

2390
01:38:41,620 --> 01:38:37,159
Vegas in 1989 was that he was told to

2391
01:38:43,000 --> 01:38:41,630
hand Paul bennewitz a document what what

2392
01:38:46,109 --> 01:38:43,010
was on the document which is later

2393
01:38:50,740 --> 01:38:46,119
referred to as the Aquarius document was

2394
01:38:53,290 --> 01:38:50,750
reports of UFO activity around Kirtland

2395
01:38:55,359 --> 01:38:53,300
Air Force Base actually including some

2396
01:38:58,510 --> 01:38:55,369
stuff that Benowitz had had supposedly

2397
01:39:01,810 --> 01:38:58,520
reported to them what it was was an

2398
01:39:04,660 --> 01:39:01,820
actual teletype sent to the AAF OSI and

2399
01:39:07,810 --> 01:39:04,670
then changed slightly to flatter

2400
01:39:11,319 --> 01:39:07,820
bennewitz as prejudices bill handed this

2401
01:39:12,850 --> 01:39:11,329
to Paul and he said that he told him to

2402
01:39:14,350 --> 01:39:12,860
take it with a grain of salt and he said

2403
01:39:15,700 --> 01:39:14,360
that Paul actually never he did he

2404
01:39:17,890 --> 01:39:15,710
actually stopped it away and never

2405
01:39:19,540 --> 01:39:17,900
mentioned it to anybody you and you

2406
01:39:20,560 --> 01:39:19,550
can't find any reference to this

2407
01:39:21,910 --> 01:39:20,570
document in any event

2408
01:39:23,379 --> 01:39:21,920
it's his writings or his letters or

2409
01:39:26,310 --> 01:39:23,389
anything like that although it probably

2410
01:39:31,540 --> 01:39:26,320
certainly influenced his thinking

2411
01:39:34,330 --> 01:39:31,550
boy-crazy he's now just so murky in the

2412
01:39:37,959 --> 01:39:34,340
flight up with grant Edwards uh up to

2413
01:39:41,319 --> 01:39:37,969
Dulce the helicopter flight and the the

2414
01:39:43,919 --> 01:39:41,329
secret camera film special film that was

2415
01:39:48,310 --> 01:39:43,929
delivered to the helicopter in a leadbox

2416
01:39:50,770 --> 01:39:48,320
Ron Regehr had I think copies right off

2417
01:39:52,870 --> 01:39:50,780
the original negatives of the craft you

2418
01:39:54,280 --> 01:39:52,880
know the unidentified craft that

2419
01:39:56,649 --> 01:39:54,290
actually approached the helicopter on

2420
01:39:59,620 --> 01:39:56,659
their trip up there I mean this the

2421
01:40:04,330 --> 01:39:59,630
whole Benowitz case in your book project

2422
01:40:07,930 --> 01:40:04,340
beta is I think is really it opens up

2423
01:40:10,390 --> 01:40:07,940
this wonderful window of opportunity to

2424
01:40:12,839 --> 01:40:10,400
look inside the the world of

2425
01:40:17,200 --> 01:40:12,849
counterintelligence with the military

2426
01:40:21,069 --> 01:40:17,210
and the government let's let's talk

2427
01:40:23,589 --> 01:40:21,079
about Falcon though Greg you came out

2428
01:40:26,740 --> 01:40:23,599
recently and announced for the first

2429
01:40:29,379 --> 01:40:26,750
time the name of Falcon have based on

2430
01:40:31,839 --> 01:40:29,389
your investigative work let's talk about

2431
01:40:34,270 --> 01:40:31,849
this shadowy character I will

2432
01:40:36,760 --> 01:40:34,280
de-emphasize my investigative work on

2433
01:40:40,750 --> 01:40:36,770
this at the outset here and I will

2434
01:40:42,790 --> 01:40:40,760
explain why what happened and this is

2435
01:40:44,800 --> 01:40:42,800
what I talked about in this in this talk

2436
01:40:47,290 --> 01:40:44,810
I gave online for the alternative

2437
01:40:49,270 --> 01:40:47,300
universe con I conference what I talked

2438
01:40:52,899 --> 01:40:49,280
about was how I found this out when I

2439
01:40:55,120 --> 01:40:52,909
was working on project beta I found out

2440
01:40:58,120 --> 01:40:55,130
who you know most of these aviary people

2441
01:40:59,379 --> 01:40:58,130
were Bill Moore confirmed some of those

2442
01:41:01,390 --> 01:40:59,389
some of those names that we had

2443
01:41:05,890 --> 01:41:01,400
mentioned earlier like put off kid green

2444
01:41:07,419 --> 01:41:05,900
Ron Pandolfi CV Scott Jones he confirmed

2445
01:41:09,399 --> 01:41:07,429
that those people were people that he

2446
01:41:11,589 --> 01:41:09,409
was working with but he would not reveal

2447
01:41:14,459 --> 01:41:11,599
to me who that who the head of the

2448
01:41:18,580 --> 01:41:14,469
counterintelligence operation was Falcon

2449
01:41:21,000 --> 01:41:18,590
but you know not for publication in the

2450
01:41:23,410 --> 01:41:21,010
book for whatever reason I don't know

2451
01:41:26,680 --> 01:41:23,420
people may have certain ideas about that

2452
01:41:29,049 --> 01:41:26,690
I don't know anyway he said that he

2453
01:41:30,700 --> 01:41:29,059
would he did the classic intelligence

2454
01:41:32,350 --> 01:41:30,710
thing with me he gave me hints and then

2455
01:41:34,540 --> 01:41:32,360
said if I guess that he would tell me I

2456
01:41:38,799 --> 01:41:34,550
was right and we can

2457
01:41:41,620 --> 01:41:38,809
talk about why he did that here - so

2458
01:41:44,620 --> 01:41:41,630
what I did what he told me was that the

2459
01:41:46,330 --> 01:41:44,630
guy used to be in the OSS the precursors

2460
01:41:49,540 --> 01:41:46,340
of the CIA offers Office of Strategic

2461
01:41:51,939 --> 01:41:49,550
Services world war ii and that he had

2462
01:41:53,830 --> 01:41:51,949
been an expert on russian intelligence

2463
01:41:54,939 --> 01:41:53,840
which makes sense in light of the fact

2464
01:41:55,540 --> 01:41:54,949
that they were doing a russian

2465
01:42:02,350 --> 01:41:55,550
intelligence

2466
01:42:04,510 --> 01:42:02,360
think that's all he told me he also

2467
01:42:07,080 --> 01:42:04,520
might have told me the guy was Eastern

2468
01:42:10,359 --> 01:42:07,090
European or had Eastern European

2469
01:42:13,419 --> 01:42:10,369
ancestry okay so I started off with that

2470
01:42:16,720 --> 01:42:13,429
so I you know I started throwing names

2471
01:42:21,459 --> 01:42:16,730
out at him you know almost willy-nilly I

2472
01:42:22,540 --> 01:42:21,469
you know I started with people like yeah

2473
01:42:25,209 --> 01:42:22,550
I'm trying to think of the names that I

2474
01:42:31,270 --> 01:42:25,219
came up with I Richard Helms William

2475
01:42:33,370 --> 01:42:31,280
Colby cord Meyer even miles Copeland

2476
01:42:36,310 --> 01:42:33,380
people like that people who have had a

2477
01:42:38,200 --> 01:42:36,320
you know documented history with the CIA

2478
01:42:40,209 --> 01:42:38,210
and were concerned with Soviet matters

2479
01:42:43,780 --> 01:42:40,219
which the CIA was mostly concerned with

2480
01:42:45,669 --> 01:42:43,790
in the nineteen fifty sixty 70s

2481
01:42:47,439 --> 01:42:45,679
I threw all these names Adam he kept

2482
01:42:49,899 --> 01:42:47,449
saying no no no no didn't really give me

2483
01:42:52,089 --> 01:42:49,909
any more hints sorry what's going to

2484
01:42:54,700 --> 01:42:52,099
libraries I was you know looking in old

2485
01:42:56,080 --> 01:42:54,710
magazines I was you know everywhere and

2486
01:43:00,010 --> 01:42:56,090
and at this point I could use the

2487
01:43:04,569 --> 01:43:00,020
internet I found a website called name

2488
01:43:07,569 --> 01:43:04,579
base org which still exists and they had

2489
01:43:10,030 --> 01:43:07,579
a feature which what it is is basically

2490
01:43:11,890 --> 01:43:10,040
a clearinghouse of spy information

2491
01:43:14,250 --> 01:43:11,900
that's available through open sources

2492
01:43:17,620 --> 01:43:14,260
you know books on the CIA books on the

2493
01:43:20,830 --> 01:43:17,630
NSA etc anything to do with the United

2494
01:43:22,540 --> 01:43:20,840
States intelligence and they took all

2495
01:43:26,410 --> 01:43:22,550
that information in these open sources

2496
01:43:28,270 --> 01:43:26,420
and put it online like who knew who what

2497
01:43:30,220 --> 01:43:28,280
when things happened what projects were

2498
01:43:32,140 --> 01:43:30,230
going on and they used to have a thing

2499
01:43:33,850 --> 01:43:32,150
called proximity search where you could

2500
01:43:35,680 --> 01:43:33,860
type in somebody's name like I would

2501
01:43:37,930 --> 01:43:35,690
what's for instance I would type in what

2502
01:43:41,189 --> 01:43:37,940
Frank Weisner who used to be in the CIA

2503
01:43:45,640 --> 01:43:41,199
and ran a lot of their propaganda stuff

2504
01:43:48,430 --> 01:43:45,650
and you put that name in and a diagram

2505
01:43:50,709 --> 01:43:48,440
would come up showing you that person

2506
01:43:52,660 --> 01:43:50,719
name in the middle and this huge web of

2507
01:43:54,880 --> 01:43:52,670
names around it with lots lines

2508
01:43:57,610 --> 01:43:54,890
connecting like a corporate flowchart

2509
01:43:59,670 --> 01:43:57,620
well sort of but it was based like a big

2510
01:44:01,840 --> 01:43:59,680
messy spiderweb ooh

2511
01:44:03,820 --> 01:44:01,850
now we have about a minute left with

2512
01:44:04,000 --> 01:44:03,830
this segment then we'll continue but go

2513
01:44:06,670 --> 01:44:04,010
on

2514
01:44:08,380 --> 01:44:06,680
okay it was this big messy spiderweb and

2515
01:44:10,150 --> 01:44:08,390
all these names would pop up and you

2516
01:44:12,580 --> 01:44:10,160
know the names I was talking about

2517
01:44:14,410 --> 01:44:12,590
popped up so I gave him a few more names

2518
01:44:16,180 --> 01:44:14,420
and he finally finally I think it was

2519
01:44:17,890 --> 01:44:16,190
tired after 10 months of me saying is

2520
01:44:19,479 --> 01:44:17,900
this guy is that this guy's this guy

2521
01:44:21,010 --> 01:44:19,489
ain't finally when nobody was around

2522
01:44:23,320 --> 01:44:21,020
when we're out in the middle of nowhere

2523
01:44:25,420 --> 01:44:23,330
on a hike he told me the guys name and

2524
01:44:27,040 --> 01:44:25,430
as it turned out that name was on that

2525
01:44:29,080 --> 01:44:27,050
list I had I just hadn't brought it up

2526
01:44:30,939 --> 01:44:29,090
yet so when I said I you know that bill

2527
01:44:32,680 --> 01:44:30,949
told me I had guessed it that you know I

2528
01:44:35,229 --> 01:44:32,690
didn't guess it but it was in the list

2529
01:44:37,870 --> 01:44:35,239
of names I had of guesses of people that

2530
01:44:39,130 --> 01:44:37,880
it could have been and he confirmed it

2531
01:44:41,650 --> 01:44:39,140
to me at that time and I've been trying

2532
01:44:43,180 --> 01:44:41,660
to confirm it ever since and I gotten as

2533
01:44:47,050 --> 01:44:43,190
far as I could gotten so I finally just

2534
01:44:50,320 --> 01:44:47,060
announced it exciting we'll have to

2535
01:44:52,630 --> 01:44:50,330
learn more about this figure and what he

2536
01:44:54,459 --> 01:44:52,640
meant and why we should care all about

2537
01:44:56,410 --> 01:44:54,469
that stuff's almost like you think the

2538
01:44:58,240 --> 01:44:56,420
revelation of deep throat he was mark

2539
01:45:01,000 --> 01:44:58,250
Feld a former assistant director of the

2540
01:45:04,120 --> 01:45:01,010
FBI and we learned that when the guy was

2541
01:45:05,550 --> 01:45:04,130
hardly in a position to even be aware of

2542
01:45:08,050 --> 01:45:05,560
anything we're really late in his life

2543
01:45:10,150 --> 01:45:08,060
we have someone who is not late in his

2544
01:45:13,950 --> 01:45:10,160
life really young guy named Greg Bishop

2545
01:45:17,800 --> 01:45:13,960
we're exploring the aviary and we are

2546
01:45:21,410 --> 01:45:17,810
unmasking the Falcon who he was with

2547
01:45:29,180 --> 01:45:21,420
gene and Chris you're in the para cast

2548
01:45:33,870 --> 01:45:31,400
America's number one source for

2549
01:45:34,800 --> 01:45:33,880
independent talk retail for over a

2550
01:45:40,020 --> 01:45:34,810
decade

2551
01:45:41,490 --> 01:45:40,030
we are the gcn radio network hi Ted

2552
01:45:43,710 --> 01:45:41,500
Anderson announcing a great way to

2553
01:45:45,900 --> 01:45:43,720
listen to radio on the telephone by

2554
01:45:47,970 --> 01:45:45,910
calling seven six oh five six nine

2555
01:45:50,550 --> 01:45:47,980
seventy seven hundred you'll be hearing

2556
01:45:53,010 --> 01:45:50,560
G C and live.com programs in seconds

2557
01:45:55,380 --> 01:45:53,020
come to GC and live.com find your

2558
01:45:58,320 --> 01:45:55,390
favorite host dedicated phone number and

2559
01:46:00,810 --> 01:45:58,330
hear them 24/7 you heard me right every

2560
01:46:03,420 --> 01:46:00,820
show has a dedicated phone number stop

2561
01:46:05,730 --> 01:46:03,430
by GC and live.com and bookmark their

2562
01:46:08,150 --> 01:46:05,740
number today and again that's seven six

2563
01:46:10,800 --> 01:46:08,160
oh five six nine seventy seven hundred

2564
01:46:12,900 --> 01:46:10,810
we the people grow cotton wheat fabric

2565
01:46:14,490 --> 01:46:12,910
engraving can bed strips and fibers to

2566
01:46:16,260 --> 01:46:14,500
protect from counterfeit and carding to

2567
01:46:16,710 --> 01:46:16,270
a private bank having a led back at

2568
01:46:18,510 --> 01:46:16,720
interest

2569
01:46:20,160 --> 01:46:18,520
forcing taxes to surfaced at this

2570
01:46:21,810 --> 01:46:20,170
capitalism what was Jefferson correct

2571
01:46:23,430 --> 01:46:21,820
when stating a central bank issuing the

2572
01:46:24,570 --> 01:46:23,440
public currency is a greater menace to

2573
01:46:25,920 --> 01:46:24,580
the liberties of the people than a

2574
01:46:27,360 --> 01:46:25,930
standing army today understand I'm

2575
01:46:29,190 --> 01:46:27,370
placing a free silver dollar in a book

2576
01:46:32,640 --> 01:46:29,200
that explains our monetary system call

2577
01:46:35,850 --> 01:46:32,650
for your copy 800 686 to 237 it's time

2578
01:46:41,520 --> 01:46:35,860
to understand the system call 866 to 237

2579
01:46:45,360 --> 01:46:41,530
that's 800 686 to 237 the summer

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2598
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2599
01:47:31,500 --> 01:47:30,880
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2600
01:47:34,950 --> 01:47:31,510
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2601
01:47:38,410 --> 01:47:34,960
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2602
01:47:46,390 --> 01:47:38,420
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2603
01:47:54,430 --> 01:47:50,089
welcome back to the para cast the gold

2604
01:48:01,370 --> 01:47:54,440
standard of paranormal radio and now

2605
01:48:04,189 --> 01:48:01,380
here's Jane Steinberg what if Chris is

2606
01:48:05,959 --> 01:48:04,199
quieter the para casts Greg Bishop

2607
01:48:08,300 --> 01:48:05,969
joining us written several books

2608
01:48:10,520 --> 01:48:08,310
including project beta exploring

2609
01:48:13,700 --> 01:48:10,530
government disinformation to tell us

2610
01:48:15,770 --> 01:48:13,710
more Greg Bishop about the falconer well

2611
01:48:17,810 --> 01:48:15,780
where we left off was that I was trying

2612
01:48:19,729 --> 01:48:17,820
to guess this the identity of this

2613
01:48:21,470 --> 01:48:19,739
strange guy called the Falcon who ran

2614
01:48:25,220 --> 01:48:21,480
the counterintelligence operation

2615
01:48:26,899 --> 01:48:25,230
against the Russians after ten months of

2616
01:48:29,629 --> 01:48:26,909
guessing Bill Moore finally just told me

2617
01:48:32,979 --> 01:48:29,639
the guys name and who he told me was

2618
01:48:36,770 --> 01:48:32,989
this guy named Harry Rose it's key ro s

2619
01:48:39,439 --> 01:48:36,780
itz ke and as it turned out this guy's

2620
01:48:41,899 --> 01:48:39,449
name was on this list I had of people of

2621
01:48:43,430 --> 01:48:41,909
former intelligence people and he knew

2622
01:48:45,770 --> 01:48:43,440
everybody he was head of

2623
01:48:47,600 --> 01:48:45,780
counterintelligence at the CIA for quite

2624
01:48:51,229 --> 01:48:47,610
a while he had worked in India Pakistan

2625
01:48:52,899 --> 01:48:51,239
the Indian subcontinent area monitoring

2626
01:48:57,109 --> 01:48:52,909
the Russians he had actually worked

2627
01:48:58,580 --> 01:48:57,119
after world war ii with reinhard Gailen

2628
01:49:00,890 --> 01:48:58,590
who was the head of the Nazi

2629
01:49:03,319 --> 01:49:00,900
intelligence operation he's the one that

2630
01:49:05,120 --> 01:49:03,329
helped coordinate paperclip he he

2631
01:49:06,770 --> 01:49:05,130
partially helped coordinate paperclip

2632
01:49:09,200 --> 01:49:06,780
yeah that was basically for scientists

2633
01:49:10,430 --> 01:49:09,210
this was if this was part of paperclip

2634
01:49:11,629 --> 01:49:10,440
it was for the intelligence people

2635
01:49:12,800 --> 01:49:11,639
because the Russians were trying to get

2636
01:49:13,760 --> 01:49:12,810
as many people as they could the United

2637
01:49:15,500 --> 01:49:13,770
States were trying to getting these

2638
01:49:19,129 --> 01:49:15,510
peoples they could the United States

2639
01:49:20,780 --> 01:49:19,139
somehow gave Reinhard Galen told him

2640
01:49:23,390 --> 01:49:20,790
what he wanted to hear I guess and and

2641
01:49:25,310 --> 01:49:23,400
got all his information on Soviet

2642
01:49:28,310 --> 01:49:25,320
intelligence what the Soviets were doing

2643
01:49:30,939 --> 01:49:28,320
etc and this guy Rosinski had worked

2644
01:49:33,800 --> 01:49:30,949
with Galen after the war in Germany on

2645
01:49:35,990 --> 01:49:33,810
gathering Soviet intelligence and had

2646
01:49:39,020 --> 01:49:36,000
run counterintelligence and it like you

2647
01:49:41,649 --> 01:49:39,030
know air-dropped spies into the Soviet

2648
01:49:44,419 --> 01:49:41,659
Union all kinds of stuff I mean it very

2649
01:49:48,050 --> 01:49:44,429
it sounds like a spy novel a lot of the

2650
01:49:50,959 --> 01:49:48,060
stuff he did by the 1980s he retired I

2651
01:49:52,310 --> 01:49:50,969
believe from the CIA and I think 1971 I

2652
01:49:53,930 --> 01:49:52,320
believe something or sometime around

2653
01:49:55,399 --> 01:49:53,940
there maybe it was the early sixties

2654
01:49:58,490 --> 01:49:55,409
anyway he was there for you know well

2655
01:49:59,240 --> 01:49:58,500
over 20 years and the story was at least

2656
01:50:01,760 --> 01:49:59,250
as I was told

2657
01:50:04,000 --> 01:50:01,770
he was brought out of retirement because

2658
01:50:06,080 --> 01:50:04,010
of his expertise with Soviets

2659
01:50:08,300 --> 01:50:06,090
intelligence and what he knew about them

2660
01:50:09,670 --> 01:50:08,310
and their methods to run this you know

2661
01:50:12,470 --> 01:50:09,680
off the books

2662
01:50:14,750 --> 01:50:12,480
unofficial operation which apparently

2663
01:50:16,550 --> 01:50:14,760
was headed by Richard Helms who was also

2664
01:50:19,820 --> 01:50:16,560
obviously retired but used to be the

2665
01:50:22,430 --> 01:50:19,830
head of the CIA in when was it Chris the

2666
01:50:23,870 --> 01:50:22,440
early sixties and it was during the

2667
01:50:26,120 --> 01:50:23,880
Nixon administration so was a late

2668
01:50:28,430 --> 01:50:26,130
sixties yeah exactly so they had worked

2669
01:50:30,620 --> 01:50:28,440
together before so well okay by the way

2670
01:50:33,800 --> 01:50:30,630
just for everyone's reference Richard

2671
01:50:38,870 --> 01:50:33,810
Helms who died in 2002 was the director

2672
01:50:40,430 --> 01:50:38,880
of CIA from 1966 through 1973 right oh

2673
01:50:42,830 --> 01:50:40,440
that's other thing I forgot to say about

2674
01:50:45,740 --> 01:50:42,840
the bills hints to me he said that he

2675
01:50:47,240 --> 01:50:45,750
had died already like around after 2000

2676
01:50:48,830 --> 01:50:47,250
so that was another thing that narrowed

2677
01:50:50,330 --> 01:50:48,840
it down and Richard Helms is actually

2678
01:50:51,860 --> 01:50:50,340
one of the names I had come up with and

2679
01:50:54,260 --> 01:50:51,870
it's funny because bill kind of smile I

2680
01:50:57,980 --> 01:50:54,270
think he's smiled and said warm but not

2681
01:51:00,580 --> 01:50:57,990
not not quite it so what happened was as

2682
01:51:03,230 --> 01:51:00,590
it was explained to me was that these

2683
01:51:05,030 --> 01:51:03,240
former intelligence people got together

2684
01:51:07,400 --> 01:51:05,040
to do what they had been doing all their

2685
01:51:09,290 --> 01:51:07,410
lives so very well which was you know

2686
01:51:11,150 --> 01:51:09,300
working against Soviet intelligence and

2687
01:51:12,890 --> 01:51:11,160
they would take this information however

2688
01:51:14,840 --> 01:51:12,900
they got it through you know through

2689
01:51:16,940 --> 01:51:14,850
people like Bill Moore or whoever they

2690
01:51:18,470 --> 01:51:16,950
were involved in the operation and pass

2691
01:51:19,580 --> 01:51:18,480
it up the chain to Richard Helms and

2692
01:51:22,460 --> 01:51:19,590
Helms would pass it through back

2693
01:51:26,030 --> 01:51:22,470
channels to the CIA the actual working

2694
01:51:27,620 --> 01:51:26,040
employed at that time CIA people as just

2695
01:51:29,210 --> 01:51:27,630
another source of information because

2696
01:51:30,470 --> 01:51:29,220
you know who would not want to do what

2697
01:51:32,480 --> 01:51:30,480
you've been doing all your life and

2698
01:51:35,420 --> 01:51:32,490
doing very well at and doing you know

2699
01:51:37,100 --> 01:51:35,430
and having fun at if asked to do so it's

2700
01:51:39,830 --> 01:51:37,110
I don't think yeah he's a team player

2701
01:51:42,740 --> 01:51:39,840
and it's also you know you're retired

2702
01:51:44,930 --> 01:51:42,750
after all that activity in your life and

2703
01:51:45,440 --> 01:51:44,940
this is a way that keep going and to be

2704
01:51:48,250 --> 01:51:45,450
relevant

2705
01:51:50,480 --> 01:51:48,260
yeah so that's what they were doing it's

2706
01:51:52,880 --> 01:51:50,490
you know the next question for a lot of

2707
01:51:54,110 --> 01:51:52,890
people is why should we trust bill more

2708
01:51:56,840 --> 01:51:54,120
and why should we trust what he was

2709
01:51:59,300 --> 01:51:56,850
saying well the the point to me it was

2710
01:52:01,790 --> 01:51:59,310
unless he was involved in some huge

2711
01:52:03,730 --> 01:52:01,800
story about the about the about Soviet

2712
01:52:08,270 --> 01:52:03,740
and counterintelligence and all that

2713
01:52:09,920 --> 01:52:08,280
everything he other researchers people

2714
01:52:12,800 --> 01:52:09,930
inside and the outside the government

2715
01:52:14,660 --> 01:52:12,810
told me all made sense in light

2716
01:52:16,880 --> 01:52:14,670
of what he told me that about rose it's

2717
01:52:19,670 --> 01:52:16,890
key it just seems to make sense to me

2718
01:52:20,960 --> 01:52:19,680
which is why you know that when I did my

2719
01:52:24,050 --> 01:52:20,970
speech at the end of the talk I said

2720
01:52:26,420 --> 01:52:24,060
look I don't know if I'm right I would

2721
01:52:30,410 --> 01:52:26,430
like it if somebody could with more time

2722
01:52:31,880 --> 01:52:30,420
or more importantly more access or what

2723
01:52:34,400 --> 01:52:31,890
the intelligence community is called

2724
01:52:36,320 --> 01:52:34,410
tickets than I have to do some research

2725
01:52:39,440 --> 01:52:36,330
on this and see if they can confirm it

2726
01:52:41,960 --> 01:52:39,450
or deny it I'm not saying that

2727
01:52:43,640 --> 01:52:41,970
Harry Rose its key was Falcon I'm just

2728
01:52:45,950 --> 01:52:43,650
saying that's the best guess I have

2729
01:52:49,310 --> 01:52:45,960
right now and I know it wasn't Richard

2730
01:52:51,140 --> 01:52:49,320
Doty because Richard Doty was not in a

2731
01:52:53,690 --> 01:52:51,150
position to do what Falcon did he was a

2732
01:52:56,000 --> 01:52:53,700
player in the in the operation not not

2733
01:52:57,860 --> 01:52:56,010
the person not the ringleader and if you

2734
01:53:00,350 --> 01:52:57,870
know Doty he's not he's not a ringleader

2735
01:53:01,790 --> 01:53:00,360
type he's if he's very good at what he

2736
01:53:04,160 --> 01:53:01,800
does which was you know

2737
01:53:05,660 --> 01:53:04,170
counterintelligence but he's not you

2738
01:53:07,250 --> 01:53:05,670
know he doesn't he's not the person that

2739
01:53:10,490 --> 01:53:07,260
would lead something like this he's he's

2740
01:53:13,220 --> 01:53:10,500
he he he's a soldier not a whatever he's

2741
01:53:15,620 --> 01:53:13,230
a soldier not a general or okay we get

2742
01:53:17,780 --> 01:53:15,630
that we get that all right now anything

2743
01:53:20,510 --> 01:53:17,790
else we can get about the life of this

2744
01:53:22,730 --> 01:53:20,520
guy Rose it's key well he's you can look

2745
01:53:24,350 --> 01:53:22,740
at I looked it up online and went and

2746
01:53:26,540 --> 01:53:24,360
got it actually ordered is one of his

2747
01:53:29,300 --> 01:53:26,550
books online it was called the CIA

2748
01:53:33,140 --> 01:53:29,310
secret operations that was released in

2749
01:53:35,990 --> 01:53:33,150
1977 and another one called KGB the

2750
01:53:38,360 --> 01:53:36,000
secrets eyes of Russia I believe

2751
01:53:40,100 --> 01:53:38,370
something like that published in 1981

2752
01:53:42,890 --> 01:53:40,110
right in the middle of all this

2753
01:53:43,940 --> 01:53:42,900
aviary business but he was a like I said

2754
01:53:46,580 --> 01:53:43,950
he was a Soviet counterintelligence

2755
01:53:50,300 --> 01:53:46,590
expert he had gone he was born in New

2756
01:53:52,280 --> 01:53:50,310
York in oh god how old was he

2757
01:53:53,570 --> 01:53:52,290
I can't remember he was born in the

2758
01:53:55,160 --> 01:53:53,580
teens I think in New York and his

2759
01:53:58,250 --> 01:53:55,170
parents were from Eastern Europe polish

2760
01:53:59,840 --> 01:53:58,260
I believe Rose its key he had gone to

2761
01:54:04,010 --> 01:53:59,850
Harvard and gotten an advanced degree in

2762
01:54:07,990 --> 01:54:04,020
actually in German language his his

2763
01:54:14,960 --> 01:54:08,000
dissertation was on a high German like

2764
01:54:16,730 --> 01:54:14,970
old high german what's the word it was

2765
01:54:18,590 --> 01:54:16,740
on old high german and the structure

2766
01:54:20,060 --> 01:54:18,600
kind of person I guess you'd want to be

2767
01:54:23,900 --> 01:54:20,070
involved in intelligence in World War

2768
01:54:26,629 --> 01:54:23,910
two yeah ideal it exactly he was his

2769
01:54:29,509 --> 01:54:26,639
personality fit the spy thing

2770
01:54:31,729 --> 01:54:29,519
perfectly you know he was very

2771
01:54:33,529 --> 01:54:31,739
methodical about what he did is very

2772
01:54:37,310 --> 01:54:33,539
discreet about how he went about his

2773
01:54:39,199 --> 01:54:37,320
business he had a respect for the soviet

2774
01:54:40,939 --> 01:54:39,209
intelligence community and what the way

2775
01:54:42,739 --> 01:54:40,949
they went about what they did what they

2776
01:54:44,389 --> 01:54:42,749
did he didn't consider them evil

2777
01:54:46,009 --> 01:54:44,399
bumbling or stupid he just considered

2778
01:54:48,139 --> 01:54:46,019
them an adversary that he had down wit

2779
01:54:52,389 --> 01:54:48,149
you know that kind of dispassionate

2780
01:54:56,000 --> 01:54:52,399
attitude about your your adversary is

2781
01:54:58,909 --> 01:54:56,010
really helpful in in that kind of work I

2782
01:55:01,189 --> 01:54:58,919
think to the to the point which he was

2783
01:55:03,109 --> 01:55:01,199
actually reported to the FBI as being a

2784
01:55:04,939 --> 01:55:03,119
communist sympathizer because he had

2785
01:55:06,889 --> 01:55:04,949
said something nice about the about the

2786
01:55:08,959 --> 01:55:06,899
Soviet Union I believe and this was

2787
01:55:11,239 --> 01:55:08,969
revealed in a document that this guy

2788
01:55:15,049 --> 01:55:11,249
Brian Parkes I've mentioned before found

2789
01:55:17,449 --> 01:55:15,059
through foi a it which describes Nike

2790
01:55:20,299 --> 01:55:17,459
and I think in 1963 some woman had said

2791
01:55:22,100 --> 01:55:20,309
that had reported roses skiing the FBI

2792
01:55:24,199 --> 01:55:22,110
went out to investigate him and their

2793
01:55:25,699 --> 01:55:24,209
report was in light of the the

2794
01:55:27,859 --> 01:55:25,709
employment of this man we have closing

2795
01:55:29,509 --> 01:55:27,869
this investigation right now basically

2796
01:55:31,250 --> 01:55:29,519
they found out he was a CIA guy that was

2797
01:55:34,009 --> 01:55:31,260
working with on the Soviet thing and

2798
01:55:36,259 --> 01:55:34,019
they said he's not a Soviet spy he's

2799
01:55:38,810 --> 01:55:36,269
working against the Soviets and he's one

2800
01:55:41,060 --> 01:55:38,820
of us he's not one of them hey you know

2801
01:55:43,779 --> 01:55:41,070
this is a fascinating development and

2802
01:55:46,909 --> 01:55:43,789
what we take away from this that this

2803
01:55:49,100 --> 01:55:46,919
aviary organization was really really a

2804
01:55:52,100 --> 01:55:49,110
heavy duty serious thing because of this

2805
01:55:53,689 --> 01:55:52,110
guy's involvement I don't know I don't

2806
01:55:55,790 --> 01:55:53,699
think it was a heavy duty serious thing

2807
01:55:57,859 --> 01:55:55,800
as far as the UFO community is concerned

2808
01:55:59,179 --> 01:55:57,869
yes it's a heavy duty serious thing as

2809
01:56:00,889 --> 01:55:59,189
far as history and most people are

2810
01:56:03,290 --> 01:56:00,899
concerned it's not really that important

2811
01:56:05,569 --> 01:56:03,300
the more important part of it in the

2812
01:56:09,139 --> 01:56:05,579
larger picture is you know how the UFO

2813
01:56:10,969 --> 01:56:09,149
community was used as a tool in a

2814
01:56:13,219 --> 01:56:10,979
counterintelligence operation and all

2815
01:56:15,560 --> 01:56:13,229
the repercussions that had throughout

2816
01:56:16,790 --> 01:56:15,570
the years and decades afterwards and

2817
01:56:20,060 --> 01:56:16,800
we're still living with a lot of the

2818
01:56:23,779 --> 01:56:20,070
implications from it and I think what

2819
01:56:25,850 --> 01:56:23,789
the what the UFO community fails to do

2820
01:56:27,500 --> 01:56:25,860
is just say look everything that it was

2821
01:56:30,979 --> 01:56:27,510
a weird time we were we were screwed

2822
01:56:32,600 --> 01:56:30,989
with and it was bad and we should learn

2823
01:56:34,159 --> 01:56:32,610
from this and move on but well what a

2824
01:56:36,139 --> 01:56:34,169
lot of people want to do is complain and

2825
01:56:38,029 --> 01:56:36,149
whine about it and get self righteously

2826
01:56:39,450 --> 01:56:38,039
indignant and I think that's wrong I

2827
01:56:41,280 --> 01:56:39,460
think the dispassionate

2828
01:56:43,380 --> 01:56:41,290
the route it's probably a little bit

2829
01:56:45,300 --> 01:56:43,390
better and another thing I was talking

2830
01:56:47,550 --> 01:56:45,310
to my friend Richard Serra day on my

2831
01:56:49,530 --> 01:56:47,560
show the other day and we came up with

2832
01:56:51,570 --> 01:56:49,540
the idea that basically what happened to

2833
01:56:53,640 --> 01:56:51,580
Paul bennewitz as has happened to the

2834
01:56:56,790 --> 01:56:53,650
entire UFO community over the last like

2835
01:56:58,350 --> 01:56:56,800
20-something years you know we've all

2836
01:57:00,479 --> 01:56:58,360
been messed with in one way or another

2837
01:57:02,580 --> 01:57:00,489
they have a certain idea about something

2838
01:57:04,140 --> 01:57:02,590
not all the UFO community but some

2839
01:57:05,400 --> 01:57:04,150
people they have a certain idea about

2840
01:57:08,340 --> 01:57:05,410
something they stick to it no matter

2841
01:57:10,290 --> 01:57:08,350
what disconfirming evidence comes and

2842
01:57:12,330 --> 01:57:10,300
they're not open a lot of people aren't

2843
01:57:13,680 --> 01:57:12,340
open minded about other possibilities or

2844
01:57:15,330 --> 01:57:13,690
the possibility that they have been

2845
01:57:18,180 --> 01:57:15,340
fooled and to drop that and move on

2846
01:57:21,360 --> 01:57:18,190
stuck in a rut as it goes yeah we have

2847
01:57:23,070 --> 01:57:21,370
Greg Bishop and we're exposing I guess

2848
01:57:24,780 --> 01:57:23,080
to some degree the apiary we've got

2849
01:57:26,430 --> 01:57:24,790
questions from our listeners quite a few

2850
01:57:28,290 --> 01:57:26,440
we'll try to get to some of them in our

2851
01:57:31,240 --> 01:57:28,300
next segment with gene and Chris you're

2852
01:57:38,469 --> 01:57:31,250
in the para cast

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2922
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2925
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2927
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the world tied together we'd like to

2958
02:01:46,610 --> 02:01:44,100
hear from you if you have a comment or

2959
02:01:48,050 --> 02:01:46,620
question about the para cast sent it to

2960
02:01:52,700 --> 02:01:48,060
news at the

2961
02:01:54,440 --> 02:01:52,710
cast dot-com

2962
02:01:58,070 --> 02:01:54,450
and don't forget to visit our famous

2963
02:02:02,540 --> 02:01:58,080
para cast community forums at forum dr.

2964
02:02:05,510 --> 02:02:02,550
para cast dot-com listeners if you visit

2965
02:02:07,160 --> 02:02:05,520
our forums at forum dr. Peric ascom you

2966
02:02:09,860 --> 02:02:07,170
no doubt have seen something called the

2967
02:02:12,380 --> 02:02:09,870
question bank and about a week before we

2968
02:02:16,100 --> 02:02:12,390
had this recording session with Greg

2969
02:02:17,660 --> 02:02:16,110
Bishop we asked you listeners to post

2970
02:02:20,150 --> 02:02:17,670
questions and we're going to change that

2971
02:02:21,680 --> 02:02:20,160
maybe use audio questions in future

2972
02:02:23,330 --> 02:02:21,690
episodes but right now we have the

2973
02:02:25,250 --> 02:02:23,340
written questions quite a few of them

2974
02:02:27,110 --> 02:02:25,260
we're not going to cover all the ground

2975
02:02:29,090 --> 02:02:27,120
it's not possible but Chris could you

2976
02:02:32,420 --> 02:02:29,100
dig up a few questions that haven't been

2977
02:02:34,310 --> 02:02:32,430
answered yet yeah yeah there's one that

2978
02:02:36,110 --> 02:02:34,320
that kind of needs to be asked right now

2979
02:02:38,270 --> 02:02:36,120
Greg because we're on the subject of

2980
02:02:40,100 --> 02:02:38,280
project beta and the bennewitz case but

2981
02:02:41,750 --> 02:02:40,110
this comes from sentry who's been

2982
02:02:44,390 --> 02:02:41,760
posting at the forum for about a year

2983
02:02:45,890 --> 02:02:44,400
Greg have you read grant Cameron's

2984
02:02:48,110 --> 02:02:45,900
article and do you agree with this

2985
02:02:50,270 --> 02:02:48,120
conclusion is question one and then

2986
02:02:54,140 --> 02:02:50,280
question 2 is about Chris Lam brights

2987
02:02:57,320 --> 02:02:54,150
book X descending which half of the book

2988
02:02:59,960 --> 02:02:57,330
addresses aspects of the bennewitz case

2989
02:03:02,840 --> 02:02:59,970
and has exquisite color photographs of

2990
02:03:05,510 --> 02:03:02,850
bennewitz was able to take of objects

2991
02:03:07,520 --> 02:03:05,520
descending and landing apparently or

2992
02:03:09,740 --> 02:03:07,530
hovering close to the ground in the

2993
02:03:11,840 --> 02:03:09,750
coyote Canyon area I don't know if

2994
02:03:13,520 --> 02:03:11,850
they're exquisite color pictures they

2995
02:03:15,140 --> 02:03:13,530
seem kind of blurry to me but they are

2996
02:03:17,600 --> 02:03:15,150
his pictures and they do show something

2997
02:03:19,490 --> 02:03:17,610
kind of strange I will deal with that

2998
02:03:21,590 --> 02:03:19,500
one first I have not finished reading X

2999
02:03:22,880 --> 02:03:21,600
descending I don't know if I agree with

3000
02:03:24,950 --> 02:03:22,890
the opinions yet because I haven't

3001
02:03:27,440 --> 02:03:24,960
finished the book so far you know I

3002
02:03:30,230 --> 02:03:27,450
think it's a pretty good book and I'm

3003
02:03:32,390 --> 02:03:30,240
very interested I wish he had the

3004
02:03:34,370 --> 02:03:32,400
photographs that he he does

3005
02:03:35,450 --> 02:03:34,380
reproductions of from race Stanford I

3006
02:03:37,040 --> 02:03:35,460
don't know why he doesn't have the

3007
02:03:38,600 --> 02:03:37,050
actual stills of the film and the

3008
02:03:41,930 --> 02:03:38,610
photographs in there that's a good

3009
02:03:44,030 --> 02:03:41,940
standard Stanford isn't no yeah well it

3010
02:03:46,640 --> 02:03:44,040
makes it very hard to figure out what

3011
02:03:48,830 --> 02:03:46,650
you know to discern exactly what's going

3012
02:03:51,440 --> 02:03:48,840
on if he just had you know I trust him

3013
02:03:53,150 --> 02:03:51,450
or his artists you know representation

3014
02:03:54,620 --> 02:03:53,160
of what was in those photographs and

3015
02:03:56,510 --> 02:03:54,630
it's quite intriguing but I'd like to

3016
02:03:57,950 --> 02:03:56,520
see the actual photos or film stills

3017
02:03:59,600 --> 02:03:57,960
like I said I don't have any

3018
02:04:01,280 --> 02:03:59,610
disagreement with Lam right yet I

3019
02:04:03,560 --> 02:04:01,290
haven't finished his book I

3020
02:04:06,920 --> 02:04:03,570
read most of grant Cameron's article and

3021
02:04:08,480 --> 02:04:06,930
I think it's I I there's no reason for

3022
02:04:10,340 --> 02:04:08,490
me to disagree with very much in it I

3023
02:04:13,430 --> 02:04:10,350
think what he's been doing is basically

3024
02:04:15,530 --> 02:04:13,440
following this case for years and what I

3025
02:04:17,540 --> 02:04:15,540
say about grant was he's forgotten more

3026
02:04:19,460 --> 02:04:17,550
about the the you know the aviary and

3027
02:04:20,900 --> 02:04:19,470
about this interaction of between the

3028
02:04:22,640 --> 02:04:20,910
government yeah than the rest of us know

3029
02:04:25,520 --> 02:04:22,650
put together yeah exactly

3030
02:04:28,010 --> 02:04:25,530
now folks the site is presidential UFO

3031
02:04:30,500 --> 02:04:28,020
calm I think grand Cameron who's been on

3032
02:04:33,250 --> 02:04:30,510
the power cast the article is about 25

3033
02:04:36,320 --> 02:04:33,260
pages if you decide to print it out yes

3034
02:04:37,910 --> 02:04:36,330
fascinating it's fascinating and he

3035
02:04:40,730 --> 02:04:37,920
mentions a lot of stuff that I didn't

3036
02:04:43,040 --> 02:04:40,740
even remember and apart from the fact

3037
02:04:44,390 --> 02:04:43,050
that I like to have slight disagreements

3038
02:04:46,220 --> 02:04:44,400
with them and there's a couple factual

3039
02:04:47,720 --> 02:04:46,230
errors in it as far as I'm concerned I

3040
02:04:49,970 --> 02:04:47,730
pretty much agree with it

3041
02:04:51,680 --> 02:04:49,980
I almost hate to admit it because it's

3042
02:04:53,270 --> 02:04:51,690
it's it's a really good article and

3043
02:04:54,590 --> 02:04:53,280
everybody should read it you know the

3044
02:04:59,300 --> 02:04:54,600
reason I hate to admit is because I

3045
02:05:01,370 --> 02:04:59,310
didn't write it but it's it's it's damn

3046
02:05:02,720 --> 02:05:01,380
good and anybody reading this should you

3047
02:05:05,510 --> 02:05:02,730
know read that and also you know if

3048
02:05:07,520 --> 02:05:05,520
you're interested in Chris land rights

3049
02:05:09,170 --> 02:05:07,530
take on what was going on at Kirtland

3050
02:05:10,460 --> 02:05:09,180
yeah very definitely get that book I

3051
02:05:12,290 --> 02:05:10,470
just got a you know like a Kindle

3052
02:05:14,000 --> 02:05:12,300
download of it very easy to get and I'm

3053
02:05:15,440 --> 02:05:14,010
reading that but yeah I don't have

3054
02:05:16,970 --> 02:05:15,450
anything really negative to say about

3055
02:05:18,710 --> 02:05:16,980
either those two things apart went from

3056
02:05:20,660 --> 02:05:18,720
what I said about Chris's book and the

3057
02:05:22,340 --> 02:05:20,670
reproductions photo pre productions in

3058
02:05:24,170 --> 02:05:22,350
it I'll just remind our listeners to

3059
02:05:26,120 --> 02:05:24,180
check our archives for the shows we did

3060
02:05:28,760 --> 02:05:26,130
with Grant Cameron and with Chris

3061
02:05:31,520 --> 02:05:28,770
Lambright now mr. O'Brien got some more

3062
02:05:33,650 --> 02:05:31,530
questions for Greg I do and this comes

3063
02:05:36,980 --> 02:05:33,660
from a longtime poster Blowfish who's

3064
02:05:39,290 --> 02:05:36,990
very active at forum dr. Peric ascom and

3065
02:05:41,420 --> 02:05:39,300
he says hello gene Chris and Greg number

3066
02:05:44,000 --> 02:05:41,430
one Greg Bishop you have mentioned in

3067
02:05:46,370 --> 02:05:44,010
your own excellent radio show radio

3068
02:05:48,140 --> 02:05:46,380
mysterioso that your father served in

3069
02:05:50,480 --> 02:05:48,150
the US military forces during the Korean

3070
02:05:53,480 --> 02:05:50,490
War did he ever have any strange

3071
02:05:55,850 --> 02:05:53,490
awareness events quote/unquote while on

3072
02:05:58,790 --> 02:05:55,860
active service or after back in the

3073
02:06:00,530 --> 02:05:58,800
States and also did you ever experience

3074
02:06:03,610 --> 02:06:00,540
any strange awareness during your

3075
02:06:06,200 --> 02:06:03,620
childhood I haven't not that I know of

3076
02:06:08,030 --> 02:06:06,210
my father never had anything weird

3077
02:06:10,160 --> 02:06:08,040
happened to him that I know uh first he

3078
02:06:11,690 --> 02:06:10,170
was like openly like hostile he's

3079
02:06:13,220 --> 02:06:11,700
skeptical about the UFO thing and then

3080
02:06:14,640 --> 02:06:13,230
after talking to me and reading my stuff

3081
02:06:17,450 --> 02:06:14,650
I think he mellowed out and just

3082
02:06:20,100 --> 02:06:17,460
kind of you know interestedly skeptical

3083
02:06:22,860 --> 02:06:20,110
consider yourself lucky my father never

3084
02:06:24,330 --> 02:06:22,870
took it seriously no well I think he's I

3085
02:06:24,959 --> 02:06:24,340
think partially he's doing it just to

3086
02:06:26,700 --> 02:06:24,969
humor me

3087
02:06:28,560 --> 02:06:26,710
the one thing I found out about my gouge

3088
02:06:31,020 --> 02:06:28,570
I thought was really weird was a few

3089
02:06:32,850 --> 02:06:31,030
years ago we were talking about what he

3090
02:06:36,390 --> 02:06:32,860
what the work he is do he used to work

3091
02:06:38,700 --> 02:06:36,400
for Aerojet in the 1950s after he got

3092
02:06:40,439 --> 02:06:38,710
back from the Korean War what he did

3093
02:06:43,560 --> 02:06:40,449
he's a chemical engineer so what he was

3094
02:06:45,270 --> 02:06:43,570
doing was testing rocket fuel and I said

3095
02:06:47,130 --> 02:06:45,280
what's the like what's one of the things

3096
02:06:48,600 --> 02:06:47,140
you really remember about that job that

3097
02:06:50,010 --> 02:06:48,610
just kind of sticks with you I think

3098
02:06:51,419 --> 02:06:50,020
that was my question he said I was doing

3099
02:06:53,760 --> 02:06:51,429
an experiment with some sort of

3100
02:06:55,950 --> 02:06:53,770
substance some compound rocket fuel we

3101
02:06:57,660 --> 02:06:55,960
were testing once and I was in a lab and

3102
02:07:00,180 --> 02:06:57,670
I had a face shield on and you know I

3103
02:07:01,979 --> 02:07:00,190
was I was transferring the substance

3104
02:07:04,890 --> 02:07:01,989
from one thing to you know one place to

3105
02:07:06,899 --> 02:07:04,900
another and one drop fell off the end of

3106
02:07:08,520 --> 02:07:06,909
a little pipette and fell on a table and

3107
02:07:10,740 --> 02:07:08,530
he said the explosion was so loud he

3108
02:07:16,740 --> 02:07:10,750
lost his hearing for a few days I said

3109
02:07:18,810 --> 02:07:16,750
whoa really he's in for the first time

3110
02:07:20,669 --> 02:07:18,820
ever my dad said I don't think I'm

3111
02:07:23,070 --> 02:07:20,679
allowed to talk about it I said what

3112
02:07:25,649 --> 02:07:23,080
this is I could probably look it up on

3113
02:07:26,370 --> 02:07:25,659
Wikipedia he said I was I'm not supposed

3114
02:07:29,399 --> 02:07:26,380
to talk about it

3115
02:07:33,510 --> 02:07:29,409
well Greg since you bring up rocket fuel

3116
02:07:36,570 --> 02:07:33,520
I have a question from Sage Sigma who is

3117
02:07:39,120 --> 02:07:36,580
a very recent addition to the para

3118
02:07:40,740 --> 02:07:39,130
Castform family I'm curious what Greg

3119
02:07:43,439 --> 02:07:40,750
thoughts are on the whole Crowley

3120
02:07:46,140 --> 02:07:43,449
Parsons angle on UFOs now Jack Parsons

3121
02:07:48,930 --> 02:07:46,150
is credited with being the inventor of

3122
02:07:52,380 --> 02:07:48,940
solid rocket fuel and started JPL back

3123
02:07:55,169 --> 02:07:52,390
in the 40s we have addressed I think in

3124
02:07:58,110 --> 02:07:55,179
a number of shows Parsons work with the

3125
02:08:00,260 --> 02:07:58,120
OTO Ordo Templi Orientis a magical order

3126
02:08:04,020 --> 02:08:00,270
that was headed by Aleister Crowley and

3127
02:08:06,450 --> 02:08:04,030
his 1946 Babylon working with l ron

3128
02:08:09,270 --> 02:08:06,460
Hubbard the guy that started Scientology

3129
02:08:11,280 --> 02:08:09,280
out in the Mojave Desert now getting to

3130
02:08:12,990 --> 02:08:11,290
my question here yeah we've had this

3131
02:08:15,120 --> 02:08:13,000
conversation a bunch where do you come

3132
02:08:17,939 --> 02:08:15,130
down on on this Parsons Crowley

3133
02:08:19,620 --> 02:08:17,949
connection to UFOs well I'm not gonna

3134
02:08:21,689 --> 02:08:19,630
give a background on it because we got

3135
02:08:23,070 --> 02:08:21,699
to get to other questions but I've been

3136
02:08:24,959 --> 02:08:23,080
interested in this for a long time

3137
02:08:27,899 --> 02:08:24,969
especially since somebody pointed out

3138
02:08:28,439 --> 02:08:27,909
very early on that this this being that

3139
02:08:31,949 --> 02:08:28,449
Alice

3140
02:08:34,199 --> 02:08:31,959
Crowley said that he glimpsed in a in an

3141
02:08:35,939 --> 02:08:34,209
altered state he did a drawing of it it

3142
02:08:37,739 --> 02:08:35,949
looks basically like a grey alien with

3143
02:08:39,449 --> 02:08:37,749
tiny little eyes and then I think

3144
02:08:40,919 --> 02:08:39,459
Rochelle Hawkes at one point pointed out

3145
02:08:43,350 --> 02:08:40,929
that the shadows above the eyes look

3146
02:08:45,000 --> 02:08:43,360
like giant alien eyes actually what I

3147
02:08:47,879 --> 02:08:45,010
think is going on there as he was

3148
02:08:49,859 --> 02:08:47,889
hooking into some sort of meme that was

3149
02:08:53,879 --> 02:08:49,869
just you know he was open to it and its

3150
02:08:56,370 --> 02:08:53,889
mind was able to receive it and it's

3151
02:08:59,430 --> 02:08:56,380
either a precursor or a foreshadowing or

3152
02:09:01,500 --> 02:08:59,440
something of something that become very

3153
02:09:05,399 --> 02:09:01,510
popular later after Whitley Strieber had

3154
02:09:09,419 --> 02:09:05,409
it on the cover of communion 1919 was

3155
02:09:11,279 --> 02:09:09,429
the lamb encounter and there are there

3156
02:09:12,899 --> 02:09:11,289
are a couple of hints around in the

3157
02:09:15,779 --> 02:09:12,909
research that Crowley actually walked

3158
02:09:18,149 --> 02:09:15,789
hand-in-hand on the beach at Montauk

3159
02:09:20,819 --> 02:09:18,159
when he had done the ala mantle working

3160
02:09:23,009 --> 02:09:20,829
but but we digress yeah so what about

3161
02:09:24,959 --> 02:09:23,019
Parsons oh do you think Parsons was able

3162
02:09:28,799 --> 02:09:24,969
to actually manifest a moon child out in

3163
02:09:32,009 --> 02:09:28,809
the Mojave Desert in 1946 I don't know

3164
02:09:33,569 --> 02:09:32,019
what he was able to do what the the you

3165
02:09:37,080 --> 02:09:33,579
know what I get from reading his

3166
02:09:41,759 --> 02:09:37,090
biography my favorite one is the sex and

3167
02:09:45,810 --> 02:09:41,769
Rockets by John Carter my you know the

3168
02:09:48,779 --> 02:09:45,820
impression I get from Parsons is that he

3169
02:09:49,919 --> 02:09:48,789
read a lot into things that no no you

3170
02:09:53,100 --> 02:09:49,929
know a lot of other people would say

3171
02:09:55,199 --> 02:09:53,110
what huh Crowley even said that I mean

3172
02:09:56,939 --> 02:09:55,209
Crowley didn't really care about Parsons

3173
02:09:58,529 --> 02:09:56,949
that much for all that Parsons brought

3174
02:09:59,910 --> 02:09:58,539
up Crowley and said he was his you know

3175
02:10:02,520 --> 02:09:59,920
hero and all that

3176
02:10:05,910 --> 02:10:02,530
I think Crowley look all equally kind of

3177
02:10:07,770 --> 02:10:05,920
distant well he yeah he did he's he I

3178
02:10:09,149 --> 02:10:07,780
think he looked on Parsons is just

3179
02:10:11,399 --> 02:10:09,159
basically somebody that gave him money

3180
02:10:13,680 --> 02:10:11,409
well we I could look at that with our

3181
02:10:15,989 --> 02:10:13,690
bosses in many places I he's the guy

3182
02:10:17,609 --> 02:10:15,999
gives us money signs the checks hey

3183
02:10:21,240 --> 02:10:17,619
we've got Greg Bishop joining us with

3184
02:10:28,030 --> 02:10:21,250
gene and Chris you're in the para cast

3185
02:10:32,150 --> 02:10:31,130
are you tired of searching for great

3186
02:10:36,110 --> 02:10:32,160
talk-radio

3187
02:10:40,370 --> 02:10:36,120
more important searching over we are the

3188
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hi this is nuclear physicist elector

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Stanton Friedman you are listening to

3300
02:14:56,359 --> 02:14:52,860
the barricades the gold-standard a

3301
02:14:58,280 --> 02:14:56,369
paranormal radio we have two more

3302
02:15:00,680 --> 02:14:58,290
segments to spend with Greg Bishop with

3303
02:15:02,510 --> 02:15:00,690
gene and Chris and the para cast Greg is

3304
02:15:04,550 --> 02:15:02,520
written such books is project beta he

3305
02:15:05,359 --> 02:15:04,560
has that radio show radio Mysterio so

3306
02:15:07,490 --> 02:15:05,369
he'll tell you later

3307
02:15:10,850 --> 02:15:07,500
how you can hear the show because a lot

3308
02:15:13,640 --> 02:15:10,860
of unfettered uncensored conversation

3309
02:15:15,320 --> 02:15:13,650
okay well Ward has a question

3310
02:15:17,800 --> 02:15:15,330
we just need to dip back into the

3311
02:15:20,359 --> 02:15:17,810
bennewitz material here quickly but he

3312
02:15:22,339 --> 02:15:20,369
Ward brings up a question about multiple

3313
02:15:25,959 --> 02:15:22,349
people reported seeing strange floating

3314
02:15:28,339 --> 02:15:25,969
orbs in bennewitz as residents and

3315
02:15:30,560 --> 02:15:28,349
something about Bill more reported he

3316
02:15:33,459 --> 02:15:30,570
was overcome with a sort of hot flash

3317
02:15:35,660 --> 02:15:33,469
when Paul said aliens were scanning them

3318
02:15:37,820 --> 02:15:35,670
while they were both I guess in Paul's

3319
02:15:40,729 --> 02:15:37,830
home did does that particular event ring

3320
02:15:41,990 --> 02:15:40,739
a bell it doesn't it doesn't to me yeah

3321
02:15:43,720 --> 02:15:42,000
well I think he mentioned that on my

3322
02:15:47,120 --> 02:15:43,730
show and that's where Ward got that from

3323
02:15:49,490 --> 02:15:47,130
what bill said was he said that he said

3324
02:15:51,620 --> 02:15:49,500
he felt like yeah he felt like suddenly

3325
02:15:53,540 --> 02:15:51,630
he got very hot and and felt very

3326
02:15:55,310 --> 02:15:53,550
uncomfortable and that was before

3327
02:15:57,260 --> 02:15:55,320
bennewitz said oh well they're scanning

3328
02:15:59,120 --> 02:15:57,270
that it was either during I can't

3329
02:16:01,250 --> 02:15:59,130
remember but he said that bill got this

3330
02:16:03,620 --> 02:16:01,260
very strange you know autonomic nervous

3331
02:16:05,720 --> 02:16:03,630
response when when bennewitz said oh

3332
02:16:07,790 --> 02:16:05,730
they're scanning us right now and and

3333
02:16:09,229 --> 02:16:07,800
bennewitz knew that because i I think he

3334
02:16:10,760 --> 02:16:09,239
just knew or he knew what the feeling

3335
02:16:12,470 --> 02:16:10,770
was and bill said he was never able to

3336
02:16:14,390 --> 02:16:12,480
explain that and he didn't know what

3337
02:16:15,879 --> 02:16:14,400
that was I don't know what it was either

3338
02:16:18,260 --> 02:16:15,889
it might have been some sort of

3339
02:16:20,780 --> 02:16:18,270
psychotronic device that was being used

3340
02:16:22,370 --> 02:16:20,790
on Benowitz I have no idea well that's

3341
02:16:24,680 --> 02:16:22,380
words follow-up question do you think

3342
02:16:27,439 --> 02:16:24,690
AFOs I was or an equivalent we're

3343
02:16:30,140 --> 02:16:27,449
producing these anomalies directing them

3344
02:16:32,179 --> 02:16:30,150
at the house and that's a good question

3345
02:16:34,820 --> 02:16:32,189
I mean what a perfect little petri dish

3346
02:16:39,250 --> 02:16:34,830
to to test out some emerging

3347
02:16:44,209 --> 02:16:41,780
around bennewitz at the time I would opt

3348
02:16:46,490 --> 02:16:44,219
for it being you know some sort of

3349
02:16:48,650 --> 02:16:46,500
device that the humans were using and

3350
02:16:50,480 --> 02:16:48,660
not alien if there are any alien things

3351
02:16:53,000 --> 02:16:50,490
around or UFO things around during

3352
02:16:55,380 --> 02:16:53,010
bennewitz is during the period we're

3353
02:16:57,361 --> 02:16:55,390
talking about in Paul bennewitz his life

3354
02:16:59,010 --> 02:16:57,371
I think it was minor and compared to

3355
02:17:00,270 --> 02:16:59,020
what compared to what bennewitz said

3356
02:17:02,281 --> 02:17:00,280
they were and what most people think

3357
02:17:04,111 --> 02:17:02,291
they were there definitely were UFOs

3358
02:17:06,900 --> 02:17:04,121
flying over Kirtland there were reports

3359
02:17:09,090 --> 02:17:06,910
made about it those were actually

3360
02:17:11,310 --> 02:17:09,100
released I believe to build more but

3361
02:17:12,630 --> 02:17:11,320
whether that has any relationship to

3362
02:17:15,480 --> 02:17:12,640
what bennewitz was concerned about I

3363
02:17:17,791 --> 02:17:15,490
think it's very little yeah I agree I

3364
02:17:19,670 --> 02:17:17,801
agree with you on that in fact you know

3365
02:17:22,701 --> 02:17:19,680
he may have just been the unwitting

3366
02:17:25,291 --> 02:17:22,711
victim of a counterintelligence

3367
02:17:27,000 --> 02:17:25,301
operation he just happened to stumble on

3368
02:17:28,920 --> 02:17:27,010
it and they said hey this guy is pretty

3369
02:17:30,900 --> 02:17:28,930
on the ball let's have some fun well I

3370
02:17:34,621 --> 02:17:30,910
ask one quick question before you go on

3371
02:17:37,500 --> 02:17:34,631
Chris Greg if you asked Bill Moore today

3372
02:17:39,810 --> 02:17:37,510
if he felt it was a good idea to get

3373
02:17:41,611 --> 02:17:39,820
involved with this intelligence mess do

3374
02:17:43,321 --> 02:17:41,621
you think he would have said yes or no I

3375
02:17:46,560 --> 02:17:43,331
think I did ask him that and he did say

3376
02:17:48,690 --> 02:17:46,570
yes but the thing he said was I would

3377
02:17:50,220 --> 02:17:48,700
have done it differently and I would

3378
02:17:51,300 --> 02:17:50,230
have actually announced it differently

3379
02:17:53,750 --> 02:17:51,310
and I wouldn't have been so arrogant

3380
02:17:55,980 --> 02:17:53,760
about it that was his answer to that

3381
02:17:59,640 --> 02:17:55,990
Chris let's go wrong with the questions

3382
02:18:02,640 --> 02:17:59,650
now well yeah Angelo are skeptical

3383
02:18:06,630 --> 02:18:02,650
moderator at forum dr. Peric ascom has

3384
02:18:09,180 --> 02:18:06,640
an interesting question for you Greg I

3385
02:18:11,310 --> 02:18:09,190
worry about you I always hear sirens

3386
02:18:14,880 --> 02:18:11,320
during your show tell us the truth are

3387
02:18:16,201 --> 02:18:14,890
they quote unquote after you well I wish

3388
02:18:18,241 --> 02:18:16,211
somebody was after me because then it

3389
02:18:19,650 --> 02:18:18,251
would mean that what I what I talk about

3390
02:18:21,031 --> 02:18:19,660
and I do is has some importance but

3391
02:18:23,400 --> 02:18:21,041
unfortunately I think it's just the

3392
02:18:26,670 --> 02:18:23,410
sirens going by outside or that's what

3393
02:18:28,621 --> 02:18:26,680
they want you to think well I think it's

3394
02:18:30,270 --> 02:18:28,631
a trickster every time I'm there we have

3395
02:18:33,150 --> 02:18:30,280
to sit there and like look at each other

3396
02:18:35,340 --> 02:18:33,160
and as the ambulance goes by it's I'm

3397
02:18:37,621 --> 02:18:35,350
not sure if that's comedic relief for

3398
02:18:39,630 --> 02:18:37,631
the show or if it's an indication of

3399
02:18:41,250 --> 02:18:39,640
something important being so it's an

3400
02:18:44,281 --> 02:18:41,260
indication of is that that's what I

3401
02:18:46,800 --> 02:18:44,291
think the studio is is situated along

3402
02:18:48,121 --> 02:18:46,810
two major thoroughfares to the crappy

3403
02:18:50,640 --> 02:18:48,131
neighborhoods where there's a lot of

3404
02:18:53,010 --> 02:18:50,650
like fires robberies and all that so

3405
02:18:55,170 --> 02:18:53,020
it's actually ambiences and fire engines

3406
02:18:56,520 --> 02:18:55,180
going by on those main thoroughfares

3407
02:18:57,840 --> 02:18:56,530
quite a bit they're not going to go on

3408
02:18:59,850 --> 02:18:57,850
some of this and it's right off the

3409
02:19:04,380 --> 02:18:59,860
freeway so you know that's that's the

3410
02:19:07,800 --> 02:19:04,390
normal explanation it's it's Harleys

3411
02:19:08,670 --> 02:19:07,810
oh yeah well we're located across from

3412
02:19:11,400 --> 02:19:08,680
an autumn

3413
02:19:13,710 --> 02:19:11,410
yeah and we get a few Harley's coming in

3414
02:19:14,940 --> 02:19:13,720
and out well angela has a has a

3415
02:19:17,970 --> 02:19:14,950
follow-up question

3416
02:19:20,130 --> 02:19:17,980
and he says seriously though why can't

3417
02:19:22,110 --> 02:19:20,140
people just get along when they look

3418
02:19:23,100 --> 02:19:22,120
into the paranormal and come out with

3419
02:19:25,350 --> 02:19:23,110
different opinions

3420
02:19:26,910 --> 02:19:25,360
I appreciate your attitude and how you

3421
02:19:29,250 --> 02:19:26,920
treat people that have a different

3422
02:19:31,530 --> 02:19:29,260
opinion than you more people should take

3423
02:19:35,220 --> 02:19:31,540
a page out of your book and I agree Greg

3424
02:19:35,880 --> 02:19:35,230
you are really a you're my model

3425
02:19:39,150 --> 02:19:35,890
fence-sitter

3426
02:19:41,850 --> 02:19:39,160
in so many ways i what do you think

3427
02:19:43,680 --> 02:19:41,860
about that how how can we all like you

3428
02:19:46,740 --> 02:19:43,690
know go to the Rodney King school and

3429
02:19:48,480 --> 02:19:46,750
get along and like become team players

3430
02:19:51,030 --> 02:19:48,490
and really throw this thing against the

3431
02:19:52,950 --> 02:19:51,040
wall and see what sticks

3432
02:19:56,100 --> 02:19:52,960
don't become emotionally attached to

3433
02:19:57,600 --> 02:19:56,110
your opinions very good advice that's

3434
02:19:59,910 --> 02:19:57,610
the main thing because if you become

3435
02:20:02,791 --> 02:19:59,920
emotionally attached to your opinion you

3436
02:20:04,171 --> 02:20:02,801
stop listening and eventually you sound

3437
02:20:06,240 --> 02:20:04,181
like an idiot to a lot of people

3438
02:20:08,190 --> 02:20:06,250
especially if a lot of people have you

3439
02:20:10,230 --> 02:20:08,200
know pointed out reasons why you're

3440
02:20:11,820 --> 02:20:10,240
wrong

3441
02:20:13,261 --> 02:20:11,830
if you keep insisting that you're right

3442
02:20:14,970 --> 02:20:13,271
and almost people can see that you're

3443
02:20:16,320 --> 02:20:14,980
wrong there's something you know there's

3444
02:20:18,240 --> 02:20:16,330
there's something wrong there and you

3445
02:20:20,251 --> 02:20:18,250
then the main thing it's it's bad for

3446
02:20:21,930 --> 02:20:20,261
you you're not learning anything I try

3447
02:20:24,751 --> 02:20:21,940
to keep an open mind of stuff even stuff

3448
02:20:26,461 --> 02:20:24,761
I think is totally whacked out because

3449
02:20:29,270 --> 02:20:26,471
you know one it's interesting too

3450
02:20:31,560 --> 02:20:29,280
sometimes it's really damned funny and

3451
02:20:33,480 --> 02:20:31,570
three because I might learn something

3452
02:20:36,720 --> 02:20:33,490
and if I learn something I can you know

3453
02:20:38,820 --> 02:20:36,730
I can I can grow and and and learning is

3454
02:20:40,381 --> 02:20:38,830
you know learning stuff is exciting me

3455
02:20:42,690 --> 02:20:40,391
being proved I'm wrong is not so

3456
02:20:44,820 --> 02:20:42,700
exciting you know but it's still

3457
02:20:47,730 --> 02:20:44,830
valuable yeah nobody likes to be proved

3458
02:20:49,711 --> 02:20:47,740
that they're wrong but you know what

3459
02:20:52,921 --> 02:20:49,721
happens is you you you know you can move

3460
02:20:55,081 --> 02:20:52,931
on and you know you discover more things

3461
02:20:56,970 --> 02:20:55,091
which are even more exciting and you

3462
02:20:58,740 --> 02:20:56,980
have to be prepared to discard those if

3463
02:21:00,990 --> 02:20:58,750
they're you know if they're not useful

3464
02:21:03,871 --> 02:21:01,000
anymore just you know grow and evolve

3465
02:21:05,341 --> 02:21:03,881
and you know and and listen and you know

3466
02:21:10,110 --> 02:21:05,351
and the other thing I try to do is if

3467
02:21:12,150 --> 02:21:10,120
somebody gets arrogant and you know

3468
02:21:13,381 --> 02:21:12,160
hostile with me I basically just shut

3469
02:21:14,940 --> 02:21:13,391
them off because I'm not gonna learn

3470
02:21:17,011 --> 02:21:14,950
anything from them because all they're

3471
02:21:19,291 --> 02:21:17,021
doing is yelling you see that in forums

3472
02:21:20,940 --> 02:21:19,301
any you know any you know people start

3473
02:21:22,600 --> 02:21:20,950
typing all in caps and all that's like

3474
02:21:24,220 --> 02:21:22,610
the third word

3475
02:21:26,921 --> 02:21:24,230
all in caps I just shut off and stop

3476
02:21:28,751 --> 02:21:26,931
reading you know that kind of thing I'm

3477
02:21:30,970 --> 02:21:28,761
not learning anything there that you

3478
02:21:34,801 --> 02:21:30,980
find that people have the people that

3479
02:21:36,910 --> 02:21:34,811
have the interesting the the

3480
02:21:38,501 --> 02:21:36,920
life-changing or at least the opinion

3481
02:21:40,180 --> 02:21:38,511
changing information tend to be the

3482
02:21:41,890 --> 02:21:40,190
quiet thoughtful people at least in my

3483
02:21:44,560 --> 02:21:41,900
experience and that's why I'm interested

3484
02:21:48,341 --> 02:21:44,570
in yeah point well-taken

3485
02:21:51,761 --> 02:21:48,351
also being emotionally attached is a

3486
02:21:53,921 --> 02:21:51,771
problem but being egoic ly attached well

3487
02:21:55,711 --> 02:21:53,931
I kind of ratchets that whole thing up

3488
02:21:58,780 --> 02:21:55,721
and it's the they're both kind of a

3489
02:22:00,730 --> 02:21:58,790
different sides of the same coin but but

3490
02:22:03,780 --> 02:22:00,740
that's really important people have to

3491
02:22:06,070 --> 02:22:03,790
be open-minded and and admit that maybe

3492
02:22:08,740 --> 02:22:06,080
they're too far out there with their

3493
02:22:11,200 --> 02:22:08,750
particular you know opinion or theory or

3494
02:22:13,301 --> 02:22:11,210
whatever take on on the whole thing yeah

3495
02:22:16,751 --> 02:22:13,311
I mean I've said this before what what's

3496
02:22:18,940 --> 02:22:16,761
what's with the certainty fetish right

3497
02:22:21,430 --> 02:22:18,950
you know why do people have to be

3498
02:22:22,030 --> 02:22:21,440
certain about things yet moral questions

3499
02:22:23,831 --> 02:22:22,040
yes

3500
02:22:24,940 --> 02:22:23,841
you know don't treat other people as

3501
02:22:27,011 --> 02:22:24,950
you'd want to be treated I think the

3502
02:22:28,930 --> 02:22:27,021
golden rule like stems to everything

3503
02:22:30,970 --> 02:22:28,940
else don't rob don't cheat don't all

3504
02:22:33,100 --> 02:22:30,980
that stuff that that's kind of been

3505
02:22:36,070 --> 02:22:33,110
mutable to me but past that you know

3506
02:22:38,020 --> 02:22:36,080
past how you treat other people I think

3507
02:22:40,331 --> 02:22:38,030
a lot of things are kind of up for grabs

3508
02:22:42,551 --> 02:22:40,341
especially the UFO and paranormal stuff

3509
02:22:45,310 --> 02:22:42,561
and I don't know why people well it's

3510
02:22:47,530 --> 02:22:45,320
just mammalian politics people they have

3511
02:22:49,211 --> 02:22:47,540
a camp and they set it up and they set

3512
02:22:50,950 --> 02:22:49,221
up an enemy and then they defend

3513
02:22:52,720 --> 02:22:50,960
everything because they you know they'd

3514
02:22:55,001 --> 02:22:52,730
rather play that game than learn and I

3515
02:22:56,530 --> 02:22:55,011
think that's wrong I mean it's not wrong

3516
02:22:57,220 --> 02:22:56,540
like that's bad but it's it's not going

3517
02:23:00,461 --> 02:22:57,230
to get you anywhere

3518
02:23:01,810 --> 02:23:00,471
yeah it's productive makes you it makes

3519
02:23:04,331 --> 02:23:01,820
life uninteresting and makes you

3520
02:23:07,541 --> 02:23:04,341
uninteresting to other people agree with

3521
02:23:09,730 --> 02:23:07,551
this Greg this is a perfect lead-in and

3522
02:23:11,470 --> 02:23:09,740
segue into our next question from

3523
02:23:14,980 --> 02:23:11,480
Apocalypto who's one of our longest

3524
02:23:16,751 --> 02:23:14,990
posters at forum dr. Perik as calm and

3525
02:23:19,270 --> 02:23:16,761
he said Greg you clearly have a good

3526
02:23:21,520 --> 02:23:19,280
sense of humor about the subject of UFOs

3527
02:23:24,730 --> 02:23:21,530
does that help you keep things in

3528
02:23:26,261 --> 02:23:24,740
perspective yeah of course I mean if you

3529
02:23:29,291 --> 02:23:26,271
can laugh about something you won't take

3530
02:23:32,140 --> 02:23:29,301
it seriously you know to the point where

3531
02:23:33,761 --> 02:23:32,150
you get emotionally attached to it I can

3532
02:23:36,340 --> 02:23:33,771
laugh about something and still be

3533
02:23:38,229 --> 02:23:36,350
totally on board with it it's fine

3534
02:23:42,550 --> 02:23:38,239
by me it's it just means that eventually

3535
02:23:43,960 --> 02:23:42,560
I'm going to eventually I have to face

3536
02:23:46,090 --> 02:23:43,970
the fact that I might want to you know

3537
02:23:47,920 --> 02:23:46,100
discard that thing that I thought was

3538
02:23:49,719 --> 02:23:47,930
really cool and it made me happy or made

3539
02:23:51,309 --> 02:23:49,729
me laugh or whatever for something that

3540
02:23:53,050 --> 02:23:51,319
seems to make more sense and work that

3541
02:23:54,700 --> 02:23:53,060
into my you know personal view of

3542
02:23:57,399 --> 02:23:54,710
whatever things are which is just my

3543
02:23:59,559 --> 02:23:57,409
view I don't want to force my view on

3544
02:24:01,780 --> 02:23:59,569
anybody else I want them to listen and

3545
02:24:03,700 --> 02:24:01,790
and perhaps you know consider what I

3546
02:24:05,830 --> 02:24:03,710
have to say and then in a

3547
02:24:07,300 --> 02:24:05,840
non-threatening or nasty way just say

3548
02:24:08,950 --> 02:24:07,310
look here's you know I don't agree with

3549
02:24:10,120 --> 02:24:08,960
you because of this and present that I

3550
02:24:11,229 --> 02:24:10,130
have evidence to me that's how you

3551
02:24:13,450 --> 02:24:11,239
should act with anyone

3552
02:24:15,849 --> 02:24:13,460
unfortunately this society is so

3553
02:24:17,950 --> 02:24:15,859
polarized we have Greg Bishop joining us

3554
02:24:20,980 --> 02:24:17,960
with gene and Chris one more segment to

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02:24:28,640 --> 02:24:20,990
come you're in the Barrett cast

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02:24:34,970 --> 02:24:31,790
the GZ and Radio Network providing the

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hello this is rosemary ellen guiley and

3660
02:28:51,250 --> 02:28:48,250
you're listening to the podcast the gold

3661
02:28:58,051 --> 02:28:51,260
standard a paranormal radio

3662
02:29:03,131 --> 02:29:00,521
we have Greg Bishop with gene and Chris

3663
02:29:04,781 --> 02:29:03,141
and the power cast Chris on the last

3664
02:29:05,831 --> 02:29:04,791
segment how many more questions we have

3665
02:29:08,441 --> 02:29:05,841
I don't know if we can get to all of

3666
02:29:10,331 --> 02:29:08,451
them we have a few but but Greg was was

3667
02:29:14,171 --> 02:29:10,341
talking about you know the whole concept

3668
02:29:17,321 --> 02:29:14,181
of being non attached or unattached to

3669
02:29:20,111 --> 02:29:17,331
your particular pet theory or opinion

3670
02:29:21,671 --> 02:29:20,121
it's almost like the perfect UFO

3671
02:29:23,111 --> 02:29:21,681
investigators going to come along and

3672
02:29:25,631 --> 02:29:23,121
it's going to be a practicing Buddhist

3673
02:29:27,911 --> 02:29:25,641
or something you have to have this this

3674
02:29:30,220 --> 02:29:27,921
level of non non attachment or

3675
02:29:32,531 --> 02:29:30,230
unattached whant to any particular

3676
02:29:34,481 --> 02:29:32,541
theory because it is so ephemeral it's

3677
02:29:37,930 --> 02:29:34,491
like trying to capture mercury it's

3678
02:29:40,841 --> 02:29:37,940
climbing then that anything you believe

3679
02:29:42,401 --> 02:29:40,851
about UFOs or expect can very likely be

3680
02:29:44,411 --> 02:29:42,411
wrong and if it is wrong just get on

3681
02:29:48,281 --> 02:29:44,421
with your life exactly you can't be

3682
02:29:51,551 --> 02:29:48,291
attached to it I have a question from a

3683
02:29:53,111 --> 02:29:51,561
Tucson resident Digital trickster he

3684
02:29:55,301 --> 02:29:53,121
says I live in Tucson Greg and I'm

3685
02:29:55,901 --> 02:29:55,311
curious what cases or locations in

3686
02:29:58,561 --> 02:29:55,911
Arizona

3687
02:30:01,751 --> 02:29:58,571
other than the Phoenix lights incident

3688
02:30:03,220 --> 02:30:01,761
that you've looked into tell us about

3689
02:30:05,201 --> 02:30:03,230
Arizona what do you think of this state

3690
02:30:07,481 --> 02:30:05,211
in terms of the UFO phenomena

3691
02:30:09,191 --> 02:30:07,491
I think apart from New Mexico it's one

3692
02:30:11,651 --> 02:30:09,201
of the one that's been one of the UFO

3693
02:30:14,171 --> 02:30:11,661
hot spots for the longest time I love

3694
02:30:16,301 --> 02:30:14,181
Tucson in fact that they have that great

3695
02:30:18,641 --> 02:30:16,311
Davis month and air museum there which

3696
02:30:22,841 --> 02:30:18,651
is one of the best air air museums I've

3697
02:30:24,611 --> 02:30:22,851
ever seen as far as cases in the Arizona

3698
02:30:26,981 --> 02:30:24,621
go the only other thing I can think of

3699
02:30:30,581 --> 02:30:26,991
that it's famous at least in UFO circles

3700
02:30:32,771 --> 02:30:30,591
is that the Kingman UFO crash which has

3701
02:30:35,171 --> 02:30:32,781
never really been proven to be anything

3702
02:30:37,421 --> 02:30:35,181
except some piece of military hardware

3703
02:30:40,271 --> 02:30:37,431
that crash and then we can't we can't

3704
02:30:42,881 --> 02:30:40,281
forget Travis either of course of course

3705
02:30:44,171 --> 02:30:42,891
Travis Walton I went to the Eclipse with

3706
02:30:48,011 --> 02:30:44,181
him and his girlfriend a couple months

3707
02:30:49,991 --> 02:30:48,021
ago perky yeah I got and I made it a

3708
02:30:52,061 --> 02:30:50,001
point of not mentioning UFOs to him the

3709
02:30:54,581 --> 02:30:52,071
entire time we were hanging out I'm sure

3710
02:30:56,741 --> 02:30:54,591
he appreciated that and when we got to

3711
02:30:58,421 --> 02:30:56,751
at the end of you know when it got dark

3712
02:30:59,951 --> 02:30:58,431
and the eclipse was over I said can I

3713
02:31:01,991 --> 02:30:59,961
take you guys to dinner so we went out

3714
02:31:03,311 --> 02:31:02,001
to dinner and he opened up to me and

3715
02:31:04,751 --> 02:31:03,321
talked to me about stuff that I was

3716
02:31:07,091 --> 02:31:04,761
going to ask him anyway which was great

3717
02:31:09,641 --> 02:31:07,101
he was really nice guy very soft-spoken

3718
02:31:11,650 --> 02:31:09,651
and really smart

3719
02:31:13,540 --> 02:31:11,660
the guy is really

3720
02:31:15,970 --> 02:31:13,550
he's not just like a cowboy out in

3721
02:31:18,940 --> 02:31:15,980
snowflake Arizona this guy is well-read

3722
02:31:21,610 --> 02:31:18,950
very articulate and and really on the

3723
02:31:24,460 --> 02:31:21,620
ball I think yeah and I I liked him very

3724
02:31:26,830 --> 02:31:24,470
much personally very nice guy and I'm

3725
02:31:30,190 --> 02:31:26,840
trying to think of other Arizona famous

3726
02:31:32,290 --> 02:31:30,200
obviously a PR Oh was located in Tucson

3727
02:31:34,480 --> 02:31:32,300
for quote for many many years like there

3728
02:31:37,511 --> 02:31:34,490
was a base of operations hey Chris is

3729
02:31:40,180 --> 02:31:37,521
anything coming about with the a PR O's

3730
02:31:41,620 --> 02:31:40,190
files in the in the warehouse there in

3731
02:31:46,631 --> 02:31:41,630
Tucson or Phoenix I guess

3732
02:31:49,810 --> 02:31:46,641
well Brian and in his erstwhile

3733
02:31:51,910 --> 02:31:49,820
girlfriend wife every few months I you

3734
02:31:53,860 --> 02:31:51,920
know leave a message occasionally I get

3735
02:31:57,011 --> 02:31:53,870
really frustrated and leave like five or

3736
02:31:58,870 --> 02:31:57,021
six messages one day I they've moved I

3737
02:32:00,220 --> 02:31:58,880
can't find where they're located but I'm

3738
02:32:02,381 --> 02:32:00,230
telling you they're the ones that have

3739
02:32:04,600 --> 02:32:02,391
the key to the warehouse for all the

3740
02:32:06,551 --> 02:32:04,610
file cabinets for the a profiles this is

3741
02:32:08,080 --> 02:32:06,561
in a warehouse or a storage house or

3742
02:32:10,150 --> 02:32:08,090
storage shed or something right well

3743
02:32:12,730 --> 02:32:10,160
it's it's not that big it's just you

3744
02:32:13,450 --> 02:32:12,740
know it's a your standard you know

3745
02:32:16,240 --> 02:32:13,460
run-of-the-mill

3746
02:32:24,730 --> 02:32:16,250
storage unit this is physically paper

3747
02:32:26,261 --> 02:32:24,740
files Beason like that you know all the

3748
02:32:27,700 --> 02:32:26,271
whining I say about you awful

3749
02:32:29,650 --> 02:32:27,710
organizations and how they should be

3750
02:32:32,230 --> 02:32:29,660
done away with because they haven't done

3751
02:32:34,210 --> 02:32:32,240
anything I think the real valuable thing

3752
02:32:37,180 --> 02:32:34,220
that you have civilian UFO organizations

3753
02:32:39,310 --> 02:32:37,190
done was collect all this data and there

3754
02:32:42,011 --> 02:32:39,320
but that all that data that must to be

3755
02:32:44,020 --> 02:32:42,021
has to be entered into a database so

3756
02:32:45,970 --> 02:32:44,030
that we can start looking at looking at

3757
02:32:47,860 --> 02:32:45,980
the that data in different ways that we

3758
02:32:51,400 --> 02:32:47,870
can't buy just like pulling papers out

3759
02:32:53,530 --> 02:32:51,410
because you know it's cross correlations

3760
02:32:56,020 --> 02:32:53,540
and yeah correlations and all that may

3761
02:32:57,790 --> 02:32:56,030
emerge by a kind of a meta-analysis of

3762
02:33:01,270 --> 02:32:57,800
all this stuff and I think that's what

3763
02:33:03,310 --> 02:33:01,280
the importance to me of the of the these

3764
02:33:05,250 --> 02:33:03,320
a profiles are and getting them out of

3765
02:33:08,710 --> 02:33:05,260
there before they get burned disappear

3766
02:33:11,500 --> 02:33:08,720
whatever well I'm working on it I know

3767
02:33:14,410 --> 02:33:11,510
who has them and you know they owe me

3768
02:33:17,020 --> 02:33:14,420
some big favors in exchange for access

3769
02:33:19,511 --> 02:33:17,030
to the files I did quite a bit of pro

3770
02:33:22,780 --> 02:33:19,521
bono video work for them and they they

3771
02:33:25,070 --> 02:33:22,790
totally freaking dissed me and send them

3772
02:33:29,051 --> 02:33:25,080
a bill Chris send him a big bill and say

3773
02:33:31,970 --> 02:33:29,061
okay yeah he is the selling of a stolen

3774
02:33:36,020 --> 02:33:31,980
crystal legacy of a crystal collection

3775
02:33:38,930 --> 02:33:36,030
it's gotten tawdry over the years yeah

3776
02:33:40,761 --> 02:33:38,940
it's really not we're gonna have to do a

3777
02:33:43,040 --> 02:33:40,771
whole show on that subject actually the

3778
02:33:45,380 --> 02:33:43,050
a profiles and and in the whole opera

3779
02:33:49,280 --> 02:33:45,390
organization are one of those kind of

3780
02:33:51,230 --> 02:33:49,290
black holes in in modern-day ufology not

3781
02:33:53,600 --> 02:33:51,240
very many new people in the field really

3782
02:33:55,011 --> 02:33:53,610
are aware of the role that Jim and Cora

3783
02:33:58,490 --> 02:33:55,021
Lorenzen played in the opera

3784
02:34:00,140 --> 02:33:58,500
organization played James McDonald Bill

3785
02:34:01,640 --> 02:34:00,150
Moore was on the board I mean this is

3786
02:34:03,950 --> 02:34:01,650
somebody should write a book on the

3787
02:34:06,440 --> 02:34:03,960
history of a premier a really good book

3788
02:34:09,110 --> 02:34:06,450
I can tell them about my interactions

3789
02:34:10,040 --> 02:34:09,120
with Cora Lorenzen rather crusty woman

3790
02:34:12,860 --> 02:34:10,050
who hated me

3791
02:34:15,080 --> 02:34:12,870
by the way hmm didn't like me at all Jim

3792
02:34:17,480 --> 02:34:15,090
Lorenzen was a real sweetheart of a guy

3793
02:34:19,580 --> 02:34:17,490
but coral did not like me let's move on

3794
02:34:22,220 --> 02:34:19,590
from a pro and that's okay I want the

3795
02:34:24,770 --> 02:34:22,230
discussion but I have one when are we

3796
02:34:27,350 --> 02:34:24,780
all gonna wake up down there one of my

3797
02:34:29,600 --> 02:34:27,360
favorite anthologies that I can think of

3798
02:34:32,240 --> 02:34:29,610
is the excluded middle anthology of wake

3799
02:34:33,650 --> 02:34:32,250
up down there Greg why don't you just

3800
02:34:35,870 --> 02:34:33,660
give us a little thumbnail sketch for

3801
02:34:38,301 --> 02:34:35,880
some of our you know early first-time

3802
02:34:44,780 --> 02:34:38,311
listeners here how much time do we have

3803
02:34:47,420 --> 02:34:44,790
left probably about four minutes okay

3804
02:34:50,030 --> 02:34:47,430
wake up down there was a collection of

3805
02:34:51,801 --> 02:34:50,040
articles from a magazine I published

3806
02:34:53,630 --> 02:34:51,811
with a couple friends called the

3807
02:34:58,640 --> 02:34:53,640
excluded middle which we published from

3808
02:35:00,950 --> 02:34:58,650
about 92 til about 2000 the book was

3809
02:35:02,210 --> 02:35:00,960
published in 2000 and that it contains

3810
02:35:04,011 --> 02:35:02,220
most of the stuff that was in the

3811
02:35:05,930 --> 02:35:04,021
magazine including some other stuff and

3812
02:35:11,830 --> 02:35:05,940
if it's all the stuff we've been talking

3813
02:35:15,770 --> 02:35:11,840
about UFOs a paranormal weird science

3814
02:35:17,840 --> 02:35:15,780
conspiracy stuff psychedelics all the

3815
02:35:21,080 --> 02:35:17,850
stuff that I think goes in the same

3816
02:35:23,511 --> 02:35:21,090
category I had a question for gene you

3817
02:35:26,570 --> 02:35:23,521
do go ahead did you actually say that I

3818
02:35:31,100 --> 02:35:26,580
had 49 listeners at one point I think I

3819
02:35:35,420 --> 02:35:31,110
was joking - Jim Mosely I was going with

3820
02:35:38,150 --> 02:35:35,430
you Mosely was at least 50 or 60 we I

3821
02:35:38,519 --> 02:35:38,160
don't know because he's 70 you know I

3822
02:35:40,619 --> 02:35:38,529
was

3823
02:35:42,510 --> 02:35:40,629
talking to Jim Mosely and just saying

3824
02:35:44,939 --> 02:35:42,520
you know he said how many listeners as

3825
02:35:47,849 --> 02:35:44,949
Gregg have on its showing I don't know

3826
02:35:51,960 --> 02:35:47,859
49 I just made a reference I could've

3827
02:35:55,649 --> 02:35:51,970
said 69 I don't know 69 million yeah

3828
02:35:58,079 --> 02:35:55,659
well live shows I get about probably 20

3829
02:36:01,409 --> 02:35:58,089
to 30 listeners don't know I was almost

3830
02:36:03,389 --> 02:36:01,419
right yeah and downloads may be in the

3831
02:36:06,210 --> 02:36:03,399
hundreds or thousands depending on who's

3832
02:36:08,279 --> 02:36:06,220
on subscribers you can see right on my

3833
02:36:13,199 --> 02:36:08,289
page at the bottom right now people that

3834
02:36:16,050 --> 02:36:13,209
actually subscribe to the feed 368 those

3835
02:36:18,569 --> 02:36:16,060
are my numbers I am NOT a big player and

3836
02:36:20,699 --> 02:36:18,579
I don't care I'm English I'm doing my

3837
02:36:23,069 --> 02:36:20,709
radio show ready mysterioso because I

3838
02:36:24,840 --> 02:36:23,079
one way you want yeah I want to continue

3839
02:36:27,420 --> 02:36:24,850
to talk to people that I want to talk to

3840
02:36:29,489 --> 02:36:27,430
and I refuse to make it commercial

3841
02:36:30,750 --> 02:36:29,499
because I want to be able to say what I

3842
02:36:31,920 --> 02:36:30,760
want and do what I want

3843
02:36:34,380 --> 02:36:31,930
somebody said would you like to have

3844
02:36:36,329 --> 02:36:34,390
dark belts I mean host close to coast

3845
02:36:38,519 --> 02:36:36,339
like I would love to do that but I would

3846
02:36:40,409 --> 02:36:38,529
be kicked off within two shows I think I

3847
02:36:42,179 --> 02:36:40,419
might make it through one show but you

3848
02:36:44,489 --> 02:36:42,189
know and one of the things here is our

3849
02:36:46,079 --> 02:36:44,499
network GCN yeah we've got a lot of

3850
02:36:49,319 --> 02:36:46,089
breaks and some of the commercials get

3851
02:36:50,969 --> 02:36:49,329
to be a bit wacky but nobody from GCN

3852
02:36:52,949 --> 02:36:50,979
has ever called me or written me and

3853
02:36:55,439 --> 02:36:52,959
said don't talk about that the only

3854
02:36:57,960 --> 02:36:55,449
really big restriction we have is just

3855
02:37:00,119 --> 02:36:57,970
not to use one of the seven deadly words

3856
02:37:02,189 --> 02:37:00,129
or their various iterations otherwise

3857
02:37:04,559 --> 02:37:02,199
use them all the time on my show okay

3858
02:37:05,909 --> 02:37:04,569
okay well I'll play comedy records that

3859
02:37:07,260 --> 02:37:05,919
have swearing throughout them but I

3860
02:37:09,420 --> 02:37:07,270
think it's important for people to hear

3861
02:37:12,239 --> 02:37:09,430
the stuff so you know yeah it's a trade

3862
02:37:13,679 --> 02:37:12,249
off yeah I know I you know my trade off

3863
02:37:16,199 --> 02:37:13,689
is I'm not I don't think I'm gonna make

3864
02:37:18,179 --> 02:37:16,209
a living at this so why should I be tied

3865
02:37:20,090 --> 02:37:18,189
to anybody's concept of what I have to

3866
02:37:23,159 --> 02:37:20,100
do I mean listeners will make

3867
02:37:25,289 --> 02:37:23,169
suggestions they will make requests and

3868
02:37:26,550 --> 02:37:25,299
sometimes I take them and sometimes I

3869
02:37:28,260 --> 02:37:26,560
don't but I don't have to listen to

3870
02:37:30,389 --> 02:37:28,270
anybody's opinion to somebody don't want

3871
02:37:34,039 --> 02:37:30,399
and that I like that I mean I think

3872
02:37:36,840 --> 02:37:34,049
anybody would like that because maybe

3873
02:37:38,729 --> 02:37:36,850
how many times that's why I've told you

3874
02:37:41,340 --> 02:37:38,739
I don't know how many times greg did as

3875
02:37:43,710 --> 02:37:41,350
a guest on a radio show your show is my

3876
02:37:45,989 --> 02:37:43,720
favorite well thanks Chris I mean that

3877
02:37:48,119 --> 02:37:45,999
and I've always meant it I have and I

3878
02:37:49,619 --> 02:37:48,129
feel more comfortable on your show than

3879
02:37:51,239 --> 02:37:49,629
any other show that I've ever appeared

3880
02:37:52,139 --> 02:37:51,249
on you're one of those you know chris is

3881
02:37:53,040 --> 02:37:52,149
a friend of mine you're one of those

3882
02:37:54,330 --> 02:37:53,050
people where we can

3883
02:37:56,880 --> 02:37:54,340
you know finish each other's sentences

3884
02:37:58,889 --> 02:37:56,890
and that's rare so finishing sentences

3885
02:38:00,450 --> 02:37:58,899
we have to finish some very quickly here

3886
02:38:02,790 --> 02:38:00,460
but tell our listeners where they can

3887
02:38:06,330 --> 02:38:02,800
find this radio show understanding folks

3888
02:38:08,400 --> 02:38:06,340
it's explicit its forthright but you

3889
02:38:09,900 --> 02:38:08,410
have to check it out yeah well if you

3890
02:38:11,490 --> 02:38:09,910
know you're giving people the impression

3891
02:38:15,059 --> 02:38:11,500
that we're sitting there swearing half

3892
02:38:19,170 --> 02:38:15,069
the time that's actually what goes on

3893
02:38:23,580 --> 02:38:19,180
it's called radio mysterioso ra di o mi

3894
02:38:25,950 --> 02:38:23,590
s ter iOS o it's radio mysterio so calm

3895
02:38:28,110 --> 02:38:25,960
you can find all the shows there that

3896
02:38:30,210 --> 02:38:28,120
I've done they're posted you can also

3897
02:38:32,700 --> 02:38:30,220
subscribe by iTunes and you can download

3898
02:38:34,950 --> 02:38:32,710
the shows and comment there I like to

3899
02:38:37,139 --> 02:38:34,960
hear people's comments and see what

3900
02:38:39,599 --> 02:38:37,149
people have to say we always enjoy what

3901
02:38:41,460 --> 02:38:39,609
Greg Bishop has to say Chris O'Brien's

3902
02:38:44,190 --> 02:38:41,470
site by the way is our strange planet

3903
02:38:46,110 --> 02:38:44,200
com recently redesigned and undergoing

3904
02:38:48,690 --> 02:38:46,120
final tune-up you can check us on

3905
02:38:50,429 --> 02:38:48,700
Twitter at the power cast Greg Bishop

3906
02:38:52,500 --> 02:38:50,439
thanks for joining us this week on the

3907
02:38:56,580 --> 02:38:52,510
power cast no problem thank you very

3908
02:39:01,631 --> 02:38:59,860
the para cast featuring Jim Steinberg

3909
02:39:04,751 --> 02:39:01,641
and Christopher o'brien

3910
02:39:08,560 --> 02:39:04,761
is a copyrighted presentation of making

3911
02:39:12,551 --> 02:39:08,570
the impossible Incorporated tune in next